1st to 3rd PO MOVE

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.

It has been determined in many other discussions on this and other forums, that it is next to impossible to feign to 3rd, turn, and feign or throw to 1st, without the pivot foot coming off the rubber, even just a tiny bit. That is why he is considered to have disengaged after the feint to 3rd.

The pitcher is not allowed by rule to step toward 3rd, and with practically the same motion spin and throw to 1st. Two separate moves are required, and the physics dictate that the pitcher has disengaged the rubber in order to satisfy that rule.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It has been determined in many other discussions on this and other forums, that it is next to impossible to feign to 3rd, turn, and feign or throw to 1st, without the pivot foot coming off the rubber, even just a tiny bit. That is why he is considered to have disengaged after the feint to 3rd.

Then it is probable which is why I said what I did.

Hint: There are many, many others who have seen F1 feign to 3rd in contact with the rubber eventually turning and throwing to 1st. Try it. It's easy! Call the game, don't succumb to accepting carte blanche umpire mythologies regardless of how often they are repeated!

[DG]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

And I would like to just "go on the record" and apologize to JFlores for taking shameless advantage of his innocent "typo" in order to shamelessly and gratuitously indulge my unfortunate penchant to engage in puerile sarcasm when it was perfectly clear from the "get go" what he was asking.

Learned a new word today... Had to look it up...puerile.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by DG

Learned a new word today... Had to look it up...puerile.

I've been using Puerile to disinfect my hands for years...ever since I saw it in my doctor's office.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Simply The Best

Originally Posted by Simply The Best
Why not call it properly? If the foot is engaged - balk. If not, no balk.
Then it is probable which is why I said what I did.

Hint: There are many, many others who have seen F1 feign to 3rd in contact with the rubber eventually turning and throwing to 1st. Try it. It's easy! Call the game, don't succumb to accepting carte blanche umpire mythologies regardless of how often they are repeated!

Let's see here...I've been doing this for 25 years, and calling this play the EXACT same way it's called at every level of baseball throughout the entire world. Not one time has a coach or player even uttered a syllable in protest of such a call. Now you come along and tell ALL of us that we've been doing it wrong all this time. Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe, the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by DG

Learned a new word today... Had to look it up...puerile.

DG,

As always, I blame the Jesuits!

I actually had a "1st to 3rd" pick-off move in a game last year, and I'll tell ya', it was kind of WEIRD.

Very early season HS Varsity game, around the 3rd inning, tall, lanky LHP on the mound, R1 & R3 with 1 out. I'm on the bases.

The F1 initiates a decent move to 1B, and as I am stepping up and pivoting to call the play at 1st, he very "smoothly" fakes a throw to 1st and begins pivoting back to 3rd.

As I am nimbly pivoting back towards 3rd following his motion, I am thinking something like, "Ahhh. The old 1st to 3rd... WTF? He can't do THAT!" before I manage to sputter, "THAT'S A BALK!" in a tone that might be characterized as "surprised indignation".

Thankfully, the move had apparently "brain-locked" the OHC in the 3rd base coaching box a bit as well, because I managed to beat his outraged complaint by about a tenth of a second, and he morphed it into a "Thank YOU" that really conveyed more of a "About freakin' TIME" sense than any sort of true gratitude.

PU never said "Jack".

The pitcher just kind of "hung his head" and shook it in a "What was I thinking?" kind of way.

Like I said, it was kind of weird.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Let's see here...I've been doing this for 25 years, and calling this play the EXACT same way it's called at every level of baseball throughout the entire world. Not one time has a coach or player even uttered a syllable in protest of such a call. Now you come along and tell ALL of us that we've been doing it wrong all this time. Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe, the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

I've seen it once, but (HS) F1 threw to first.

The point is, imo, call this one according to the rule -- if (OBR?NCAA) F1 fails to come off the rubber, balk it. If (HS) F1 stays on the rubber and feints, balk it.

Benefit of the doubt to the pitcher, though.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

The pitcher just kind of "hung his head" and shook it in a "What was I thinking?" kind of way.

Like I said, it was kind of weird.

JM

F1 was probably ambidextrous, and it worked just fine when he faced the other way.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Wow, you must be the BEST umpire EVER!

Thanks!

I never accepted any "myths" about the game of baseball. This is not a myth, it's physics. In order to perform the move you describe,

I'm sorry I described no move, you must be confused.

his interpretation of one of many possible moves> the pitcher would have to feign to 3rd, drag his pivot foot on the ground as he spins around to throw to 1st, and I've NEVER ONCE seen a pitcher do this. They 100% of the time lift their pivot foot off the rubber when turning to throw to 1st. I will let you know the VERY FIRST TIME I see someone stay in total contact with the rubber on this move.

Thanks, no need; I doubt you will ever see that move since if in 25 years you have yet to. I have seen it several times.

So you don't mind if I do not hold my breath or anxiously await your notification.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I've seen it once, but (HS) F1 threw to first.

Likewise.

The point is, imo, call this one according to the rule -- if (OBR?NCAA) F1 fails to come off the rubber, balk it. If (HS) F1 stays on the rubber and feints, balk it.

Correct, very simple, it it is a balk, call a balk. No need to automatically allow any move; umpire mythologies at work when you do.

[DG]

The example shown in Evans Balk video is pretty clear, the pitcher faked then turned and threw to first without disengaging. In the example shown it is easy to see. In actual fact though, it rarely if ever happens that way, there is always space between foot and rubber on the feint and turn.

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by DG

The example shown in Evans Balk video is pretty clear, the pitcher faked then turned and threw to first without disengaging.

BALK!

In the example shown it is easy to see. In actual fact though, it rarely if ever happens that way, there is always space between foot and rubber on the feint and turn.

No call.