When is it dead?

[Sco53]

FED Rules- R1 and R3 two outs. F1 attempts a pickoff throw which is muffed by F3. As F3 retreives the ball he obstructs R1. R1 continues towards second, and is tagged before he reaches second base by F4 after receiving a throw from F3. In the meantime, R3 is advancing towards home but does not arrive there before R1 is tagged. Does the delayed dead ball allow for the run to score, or is it killed when the obstructed runner is tagged? Thanks for any help on this. Sco

[UmpJM]

Sco53,

Under FED rules, keep the ball in play until no further action is possible and/or action has completely relaxed.

In your sitch, that would be after the R3 scored (or was thrown out trying to score).

Then call Time and administer the Obstruction award.

JM

[Rich]

Just remember, as living creatures we're all delayed dead.

In NFHS rules, let the play continue until all action has ceased.

[UmpTTS43]

This example is why keeping the ball live on type b obs is bad. The obstructed runner is tagged for the apparant 3rd out, so the defense is not going to make a play on R3. I would kill it on the tag, give R1 second and place R3 then deal with the coaches.

[UmpJM]

UmpTT,

That's how I'd deal with it under OBR (and, starting this year, NCAA) rules.

FED, I'd let it play out.

I don't disagree with your qualitative judgment, but, it's their rules, so I do my best to abide them.

JM

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

UmpTT,

That's how I'd deal with it under OBR (and, starting this year, NCAA) rules.

FED, I'd let it play out.

I don't disagree with your qualitative judgment, but, it's their rules, so I do my best to abide them.

JM

What are you going to play out? Three outs have been recorded so it would reason that all play is going to stop, at least by the defense.

Once three outs have been recorded, the way I understand the rules, the ball is dead anyways. Could be wrong.

I understand the dilema in FED's play it out senario, just sayin.

[ManInBlue]

Now that you know when to write the obituary, what do you do with the runners?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Now that you know when to write the obituary, what do you do with the runners?

Whatever you want. Just award R1 to 2B at a minimum.

[dileonardoja]

As I posted in another thread:

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

I realize this is the OBR mechanic but IMO the FED mechanic leaves us holding the dirty end of the stick. As UmpTTS43 said in his post, the DC coach will argue his team did not attempt a play at the plate because they thought there was three outs.

I do not understand the reasoning behind the FED rule difference. If the FED would only stick to safety related issues we would all be the better for it.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by dileonardoja

As I posted in another thread:

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

I realize this is the OBR mechanic but IMO the FED mechanic leaves us holding the dirty end of the stick. As UmpTTS43 said in his post, the DC coach will argue his team did not attempt a play at the plate because they thought there was three outs.

I do not understand the reasoning behind the FED rule difference. If the FED would only stick to safety related issues we would all be the better for it.

I agree. In actual practice, I think that I would judge that "all playing action had stopped" almost immediately after the defense recorded what it thought was the third out, and would then call time. I'm not sure I see why obstructing one runner should result in allowing a different runner adequate time to score.

What's that? Just like the OBR mechanic? Well, what a coincidence!

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Sco53

FED Rules- R1 and R3 two outs. F1 attempts a pickoff throw which is muffed by F3. As F3 retreives the ball he obstructs R1. R1 continues towards second, and is tagged before he reaches second base by F4 after receiving a throw from F3. In the meantime, R3 is advancing towards home but does not arrive there before R1 is tagged. Does the delayed dead ball allow for the run to score, or is it killed when the obstructed runner is tagged? Thanks for any help on this. Sco

Interesting dilemma (thank you FED). This is a great play to do the left hand point and yell 'THAT'S OBSTRUCTION" and see if you can get everyone to stop. If they do, call TIME and award R1 2nd and if R3 made it to the plate (this is up to the PU), so be it. Now, if they do not stop, kill it when R1 is tagged as he cannot be out. If R3 didn't make it to the plate, tough - not our problem. I think that the big key here is to get that left hand out there pointing and make sure you use your voice to indicate the obstruction.

And no, I do not use or condone that idiotic FED mechanic of holding your damn left arm out with a fist, on an obstruction call. I use the OBR method - point with the left hand and let everyone in the park know what happened.

[dash_riprock]

There are only two outs because R1 is not out. If R3 is advancing toward the plate, playing action has not stopped.

I'm with JM. I'd keep it live (FED only).