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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 06:38am
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ASA 12U - B1 hits the ball, while still in box the ball hits the bat in B1s hands for a second time. Is this called a dead ball and add a strike with less than 2 strikes or is it a simply a foul ball. In this game the ump called her out, said it did not matter if she was in the box or not.

What if? B1 hits the ball and the ball hits the ground bounces into the air, the batter drops the bat and the ball hits the bat in the air out of B1s hands?

Whats the call in Fed on both of these?
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 08:07am
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ASA. First, (1) dead ball and add a strike with less than 2 strikes is the same as (2) foul ball.

Second, the umpire was wrong to call the batter out. POE #23 Part A says:

"If the bat is in the hands of the batter when the ball comes in contact with it, and the batter is in the batter's box, it is a foul ball. If an entire foot of the batter is completely outside the batter's box, he is out. When in doubt, don't guess the batter out. Call it a foul ball."

As to your second question, Part B says:

"If the bat is out of the batter's hands (dropped or thrown) and it hits the ball in fair territory, the ball is dead and the batter runner is out."

Part B continues, "If the ball hits the bat on the ground, the batter is not out," and then specifies how then to determine fair or foul.

As I remember, Fed is the same, but with different criteria for determining whether a ball that rolls against a bat on the ground is fair or foul. I'll let someone else speak for Fed.

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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 10:03am
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I know you specified ASA but in Dixie it would be a dead ball out. In the second case, the batter is not out:
:
7:05 — THE BATTER SHALL NOT HIT A FAIR BALL WITH THE BAT A SECOND TIME IN FAIR TERRITORY.
EFFECT: 7:05 — The ball is dead, the batter is out, and baserunners may not advance.
NOTE: If the batter drops the bat and the ball rolls against the bat in fair territory and, in the umpireÂ’s judgment, there was no intention to interfere with the course of the ball, the batter is not out and the ball is alive and in play.
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 10:35am
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Emaxos, double check your rule against the situation posted.

Situation says: while still in box the ball hits the bat in B1s hands for a second time

Rule says: THE BATTER SHALL NOT HIT A FAIR BALL WITH THE BAT A SECOND TIME IN FAIR TERRITORY

A FAIR BALL IN FAIR TERRITORY is the key here. If the batter is still in the box and hits the ball again, it's simply a foul ball.

[Edited by AlabamaBlue on May 15th, 2003 at 10:39 AM]
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 12:19pm
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 01:38pm
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Bear with me here. If B1 swings the bat and makes contact with the ball, then, while still standing in the box, makes contact a second time, isn't it perceivable that the bat position would be in front of HP which is fair territory. If, as I have seen several times, the hands are not part of the bat, why does the foot position of B1 matter.

Anyway, that's the mental image I got from reading the situation. Perhaps I'm not seeing it right.
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 02:04pm
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Talking

Quote:
Originally posted by emaxos
Bear with me here. If B1 swings the bat and makes contact with the ball, then, while still standing in the box, makes contact a second time, isn't it perceivable that the bat position would be in front of HP which is fair territory. If, as I have seen several times, the hands are not part of the bat, why does the foot position of B1 matter.

Anyway, that's the mental image I got from reading the situation. Perhaps I'm not seeing it right.
Repeat after me...

I will (I will) read and memorize (read and memorize) the definitions first (the definitions first) before trying (before trying) to understand (to understand) the other rules (the other rules).

Dixie Softball Rule Definitions
37. FOUL BALL--
A foul ball is a batted ball that:

e. Touches the batter or the bat a second time while the ball is within the batterÂ’s box.
f. Immediately rebounds up from the ground or home plate and hits the bat a second time while the batter is in the batterÂ’s box.
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Old Thu May 15, 2003, 02:29pm
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That's That's why why I I love love you you guys guys and and why why I I just just coach coach..
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