Help me win a bet - Page 3

David M · #31 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:20pm

Bob would that be the same in OBR?

UmpJM · #32 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Viverito

If that's written I see what you are getting at. An unwritten speed-up rule.

Seems odd the FED would make such a distinction. If they do I wonder what is the purpose? I'm thinking get the out either way if the appeal was proper - bag or runner.

FED appeals are pretty lax...

8-2-5 Penalty (Art 1 - 5) "A live ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early".

We can get it from a verbal appeal shouted from the dugout...we can get it if they tag the base.

Does that help muddy the winner of the bet?

Chris,

That's not what MY rule book says.

Where did you get yours?

JM

Chris Viverito · #33 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Chris,

That's not what MY rule book says.

Where did you get yours?

JM

From the IHSA. Pg. 46.

UmpJM · #34 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

Bob would that be the same in OBR?

David,

I'm not Bob, but yes, it would.

While there is no FED language covering this situation at 1B, there is at Home plate. (8.2.2M(b) ) This establishes the principle that if the runner is "actively" returning to the base he missed, the runner (rather than the base) must be tagged in order for the umpire to sustain the appeal.

There is corresponding language in the text of the OBR rules establishing this principle at home (7.10 whichever of a, b, c, d addresses a runner missing home - don't recall off the top of my head), but, again, nothing specific to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

The J/R is the only "authoritative" source of which I am aware that explicitly states that the principle would apply to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

JM

UmpJM · #35 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Viverito

From the IHSA. Pg. 46.

Chris,

Are you sure?

In mine there is no sentence that starts with:

Quote:

A live ball appeal may be made by a coach....

Not on page 46 or anywhere else in the whole freakin' book! (Nor the Case Book, for that matter).

I suspect that is because a Coach cannot make a live ball appeal (of a baserunning infraction, of course) under FED rules.

JM

Chris Viverito · #36 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 04:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Chris,

Are you sure?

In mine there is no sentence that starts with:

Not on page 46 or anywhere else in the whole freakin' book! (Nor the Case Book, for that matter).

I suspect that is because a Coach cannot make a live ball appeal (of a baserunning infraction, of course) under FED rules.

JM

Well look at Mr. Smarty pants! Of course it's not in your book. It's not in anybody's book but mine! And...mine is the better book. Seriously...because I read it with one eye up and one eye down, which makes it easier to read between the lines.

Yep - caught me again you bastige. A coach...coach. Right. a COACH is not said to have the privilage of making a LIVE ball appeal. And in the entire freakin book. I don't want to confuse anybody any further. So...JM...I got this...A COACH can make dead ball appeal. What I am referring to...is the coach.

Now if you'll excuse me, the doctor is about to begin stitching.

UmpJM · #37 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 11:52pm

Chris,

1. I prefer "know it all" to "Mr. Smarty Pants". It's more dignified.

2. I can only hope you've learned your lesson. (Today's "utes", I'm tellin' ya'. What's becoming of the world today?) When I say "Are you sure?", I'm just being (characteristically, I might add..) courteous. What I really mean is, "That's a pretty stupid freakin' thing to say!"

3. I thank my lucky stars that you are not so dense and inattentive when we are on the field together.

4. I hope the surgery is successful, and, either way, it can't possibly hurt.

JM

Chris Viverito · #38 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2011, 10:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Chris,

1. I prefer "know it all" to "Mr. Smarty Pants". It's more dignified.

2. I can only hope you've learned your lesson. (Today's "utes", I'm tellin' ya'. What's becoming of the world today?) When I say "Are you sure?", I'm just being (characteristically, I might add..) courteous. What I really mean is, "That's a pretty stupid freakin' thing to say!"

3. I thank my lucky stars that you are not so dense and inattentive when we are on the field together.

4. I hope the surgery is successful, and, either way, it can't possibly hurt.

JM

Oh? Now you getting personal. You're only saying these things because you know I have deep respect for my elders...and the older they are, the more respect they get. Which lands you at the top of my respect list, right above to my sweet frail old grandmother who's about to turn 90.

UmpJM · #39 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2011, 10:48am

I graciously accept your sincere and profoundly heartfelt apology.

And don't let it happen again, ya' young whippersnapper!

JM

TussAgee11 · #40 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2011, 12:20pm

Supposedly happened in MLB with Vaughn and Griffey circa 95. Vaughn chased Griffey and Griffey slid under his tag back into first. Can't find any verification on this, just word of mouth.

johnnyg08 · #41 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 26, 2011, 01:02pm

The coach can yell to his players telling them what to do during a live ball, but the players need to carry out the intentional and unmistakable proper appeal action.

David M · #42 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

David,

I'm not Bob, but yes, it would.

While there is no FED language covering this situation at 1B, there is at Home plate. (8.2.2M(b) ) This establishes the principle that if the runner is "actively" returning to the base he missed, the runner (rather than the base) must be tagged in order for the umpire to sustain the appeal.

There is corresponding language in the text of the OBR rules establishing this principle at home (7.10 whichever of a, b, c, d addresses a runner missing home - don't recall off the top of my head), but, again, nothing specific to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

The J/R is the only "authoritative" source of which I am aware that explicitly states that the principle would apply to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

JM

Thanks JM. You are not Bob but just about the next best thing!

UmpJM · #43 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 12:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

Thanks JM. You are not Bob but just about the next best thing!

David,

While I certainly appreciate the compliment, I certainly wouldn't say that!

As a matter of fact, should you happen to come across a thread where Bob and I disagree on some aspect of rules or umpiring, I would encourage you to "go with what Bob said" - that's what I always do!

JM

mbyron · #44 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 12:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

As a matter of fact, should you happen to come across a thread where Bob and I disagree on some aspect of rules or umpiring, I would encourage you to "go with what Bob said" - that's what I always do!

If he follows your advice, isn't he agreeing with you, too?

Rita C · #45 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Did you win the bet?

Oh yeah.

Rita