Help me win a bet

MrUmpire · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 24, 2011, 11:06pm

Did you win the bet?

David M · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 08:39am

What is required if both the 1st baseman and the runner realize the base was missed, does it require a tag of the runner while off the base or the base while the runner is off the base?

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

What is required if both the 1st baseman and the runner realize the base was missed, does it require a tag of the runner while off the base or the base while the runner is off the base?

I think FED specifically says that if the runner is trying to return, then the runner must be tagged. In this case, I'd apply that only if the runner is "actively" trying to get to the base. If he's just strolling back as after most overruns of first, I'd allow the base to be tagged.

Chris Viverito · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think FED specifically says that if the runner is trying to return, then the runner must be tagged. In this case, I'd apply that only if the runner is "actively" trying to get to the base. If he's just strolling back as after most overruns of first, I'd allow the base to be tagged.

If that's written I see what you are getting at. An unwritten speed-up rule.

Seems odd the FED would make such a distinction. If they do I wonder what is the purpose? I'm thinking get the out either way if the appeal was proper - bag or runner.

FED appeals are pretty lax...

8-2-5 Penalty (Art 1 - 5) "A live ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early".

We can get it from a verbal appeal shouted from the dugout...we can get it if they tag the base.

Does that help muddy the winner of the bet?

David M · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:20pm

Bob would that be the same in OBR?

UmpJM · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 02:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by David M

Bob would that be the same in OBR?

David,

I'm not Bob, but yes, it would.

While there is no FED language covering this situation at 1B, there is at Home plate. (8.2.2M(b) ) This establishes the principle that if the runner is "actively" returning to the base he missed, the runner (rather than the base) must be tagged in order for the umpire to sustain the appeal.

There is corresponding language in the text of the OBR rules establishing this principle at home (7.10 whichever of a, b, c, d addresses a runner missing home - don't recall off the top of my head), but, again, nothing specific to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

The J/R is the only "authoritative" source of which I am aware that explicitly states that the principle would apply to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

JM

David M · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 12:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

David,

I'm not Bob, but yes, it would.

While there is no FED language covering this situation at 1B, there is at Home plate. (8.2.2M(b) ) This establishes the principle that if the runner is "actively" returning to the base he missed, the runner (rather than the base) must be tagged in order for the umpire to sustain the appeal.

There is corresponding language in the text of the OBR rules establishing this principle at home (7.10 whichever of a, b, c, d addresses a runner missing home - don't recall off the top of my head), but, again, nothing specific to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

The J/R is the only "authoritative" source of which I am aware that explicitly states that the principle would apply to a BR overrunning and missing 1B.

JM

Thanks JM. You are not Bob but just about the next best thing!

UmpJM · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Viverito

If that's written I see what you are getting at. An unwritten speed-up rule.

Seems odd the FED would make such a distinction. If they do I wonder what is the purpose? I'm thinking get the out either way if the appeal was proper - bag or runner.

FED appeals are pretty lax...

8-2-5 Penalty (Art 1 - 5) "A live ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early".

We can get it from a verbal appeal shouted from the dugout...we can get it if they tag the base.

Does that help muddy the winner of the bet?

Chris,

That's not what MY rule book says.

Where did you get yours?

JM

Chris Viverito · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Chris,

That's not what MY rule book says.

Where did you get yours?

JM

From the IHSA. Pg. 46.

UmpJM · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 25, 2011, 02:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Viverito

From the IHSA. Pg. 46.

Chris,

Are you sure?

In mine there is no sentence that starts with:

Quote:

A live ball appeal may be made by a coach....

Not on page 46 or anywhere else in the whole freakin' book! (Nor the Case Book, for that matter).

I suspect that is because a Coach cannot make a live ball appeal (of a baserunning infraction, of course) under FED rules.

JM

Rita C · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Mar 28, 2011, 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Did you win the bet?

Oh yeah.

Rita