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Rita C · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 03:45pm

High school rules and mechanics

Batter/runner beats the ball to first base but does not touch the base as he overruns it. Ball arrives late but fielder has his foot on the bag.

What is the call and mechanic the umpire uses?

Rita

mbyron · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 03:55pm

I was taught: at first base ONLY,

1. If the runner beats the ball, signal safe: you must signal safe/out on a play at 1B to indicate whether the runner beat the ball.
2. If the defense appeals the missed base, rule on the appeal. F3 gloving the throw with his foot on the base is not by itself an appeal, and 8.2.3 has FINALLY been deleted in the new case book (it had an "accidental" appeal play).

Welpe · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 03:56pm

They finally dumped 8.2.3 you say? Glad to hear that.

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 05:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C

High school rules and mechanics

Batter/runner beats the ball to first base but does not touch the base as he overruns it. Ball arrives late but fielder has his foot on the bag.

What is the call and mechanic the umpire uses?

Rita

Agree with mbyron with one small nit -- ust the same mecahnic you would use if BR had touched the base. If he's safe by just a little, a standard "safe". IF he's safe by a mike, then no call or a casual safe.

MikeStrybel · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 09:47pm

Has anyone ever seen this play occur at a level beyond tee ball? In over 30 years of umpiring, I have never seen the BR miss first base on this play.

Enjoy your season and be safe.

jkumpire · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 10:43pm

Mike,

I hate to say this, but in FED ball I have seen more foul tips caught by someone other than F2 (2 times) then had this play in a game (1 time).

yawetag · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 10:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Has anyone ever seen this play occur at a level beyond tee ball? In over 30 years of umpiring, I have never seen the BR miss first base on this play.

Enjoy your season and be safe.

I have seen a runner in a high school game miss 1B.

Durham · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 11:01pm

Sorry I can't help! The NCAA has a gaming policy

Fan10 · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Mar 19, 2011, 11:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Has anyone ever seen this play occur at a level beyond tee ball? In over 30 years of umpiring, I have never seen the BR miss first base on this play.

Enjoy your season and be safe.

I'm just a fan, but I saw this happen last season in an NCAA Division I game. There were 2 out and a runner at 3B. No signal was given by the 1st base ump, and the 2nd baseman for the defense picked up on it immediately. He came running over yelling at the 1st baseman. And, the first baseman then tagged the batter for out number 3.

I knew that it was a rare play because in between innings, the umpires got together to discuss whether the run should count. After a brief meeting, the plate ump turned to the press box and waved his hands above his head indicating no run.

BK47 · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:06am

Bob and mbyron, your saying to "Safe" the BR then upon proper appeal by the defense call him out?

Why couldnt you just call him out on the first time by with emphasis just as you would call him safe if F3 had a pulled foot? Or is it more like calling a Runner "Safe" when advancing to a base even though he left early, or missed a base in between, then upon proper appeal from the defense calling him "Out"?

I've not seen this play however want to get it right if/when I ever do.

Thanks.

yawetag · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BK47

Or is it more like calling a Runner "Safe" when advancing to a base even though he left early, or missed a base in between, then upon proper appeal from the defense calling him "Out"?

This. Always make the call as if he touched the base. If it's a close call, give it a big "safe" as you would if he really were safe.

johnnyg08 · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:29am

Because once the runner misses the base, it becomes an appeal play. An appeal must be intentional.

bob jenkins · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Has anyone ever seen this play occur at a level beyond tee ball? In over 30 years of umpiring, I have never seen the BR miss first base on this play.

Enjoy your season and be safe.

Twice in college, twice in HS.

And, one appeal in college, but the runner had touched first.

BretMan · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:52am

Had this come up once in a high school game last season and that's the only time I can remember having to deal with it.

Nobody on, me in "A", ground ball on the infield. On the batter-runner's last stride, he stepped over the base. His foot missed the bag and landed on the outfield side of first just a couple of clicks before the throw got there.

I signalled "safe". The runner returned to first with no appeal. Then the fun started...

Defensive coach wants to discuss play with me. He wants an out because "the runner didn't touch first base". Tried to explain that it's an appeal play and it's too late to appeal once the runner has safely returned to first base.

He's not buying it, so he goes crying to the plate umpire. Plate guy (first year umpire) comes out to me and tells me he had the runner missing the base. No kidding! So I explain to him how it works. He seems sceptical, so I tell him it's my call, I'm sticking with it and we'll discuss it after the game, Which we did...

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Sun Mar 20, 2011, 08:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan

His foot missed the bag and landed on the outfield side of first just a couple of clicks before the throw got there.

This brings up a good point that I meant to mention earlier. The general interp is that the runner hasn't passed the base until he's entirely (trailing foot) past the base.