Umpire Jursidiction

[PeteBooth]

Since this Forum has been quiet of late I thought I would bring an interesting topic from another Forum (the URC to be exact) to get your views. Rather than repeat the thread go visit the URC on a thread titled "Umpire goes to Court"

Here's the link

http://www.umpire.org/

Here's my take on the situation

FED Rule 10-1-2

Umpire Jurisdiction BEGINS upon the umpire(s) arriving at the Field (within the confines of the field) and ENDS when the Umpires LEAVE The playing field at the conclusion of the game .

FED rule 10-2-3h

The UIC may forfeit the game for prescribed infractions by spectatators, coaches, players or attendants.

The reason I bring up the aforementioned is in response to Rodney's latest thread.

As Umpires we are Responsible for activities within the confines of the field or as is most common things Inside the Diamond

Most things outside the Diamond are NOT our responsibilities and IMO when we as officials try and interject ourselves regarding things not within our jursidiction is when we get into trouble.

Even LL put in a new rule this year that says an umpire can stop the game if Fans become unruly etc.

Therefore, my advice to new or first year umpires is to not become involved with situations "outside the diamond" That is someone else's responsibility.

Most of us at one time or another have had problems with Fans. For the most part we should simply ignore unless the Fan's actions make it difficult to continue playing in which case we simply go to the appropriate parties and ask them to handle.

In HS it's simple "Skip the fan is making it almost impossible for us to continue playing" Can you kindly ask that person to leave otherwise we will stop here and a letter to the AD will be forthcoming" Plain and simple No need to shout etc. Most HS coaches will assist and to date I haven't had any problems.

I don't mean to criticize LL officials, but some LL officials take their authority where it shouldn't and that is outside the diamond. I realize that some BOD members are also umpires, however, when you umpire you act as an umpire, just like when you coach.

I don't mean to sound insensitive like we shouldn't care etc., however, in this "sue happy" world we live in, let the appropriate parties handle things outside the diamond.

Let's take a typical case for example. As been mentioned some fields have a rope around the home plate area which means this particular league doesn't want any fans standing behind the plate and atangonise the PU.

This is a LEAGUE REGULATION not a BASEBALL RULE which IMO is what we as officials have to disntinguish. If we see a fan behind home plate I don't say anything UNLESS the Fan starts shenanigans at which time I will not even direct any comments to the Fan, simply ask the coach or BOD representative to handle as that is a Park Rule so to speak and not a baseball rule.

In summary, whenever you have problems involving things "outside the diamond" let the appropriate authorities handle. If actvity outside the diamond does in fact effect what goes on "inside the diamond" then simply stop the game which is what we as officials can do.

When we stop the game at that point it's up to the League administrators to handle as we did our job.

Side Note: IMO this would be a good topic for one of the writers on this Forum to write an article about in Officiating.com

Pete Booth

[Rog]

Pete:
For some time now I have not been able to get my posts to enter on that board even though I am logged onto the board; anyway, here is my response to Rodney's post.

Rodney -
Sorry to hear you got "thrown to the wolves", so to speak.

Personally, I would have let that sleeping dog lie.

If someone wants it moved, let them go kick it!

It is going to be interesting, to say the least, to see how your local district attorney gets this pig to fly!?!?!?

i.e. Man refuses to move away from the Centerfield fence, and gets arrested.

Why?

Because he was "in the line of view of the catcher and/or batter"; and, "it may/did hinder their view of the ball".

"B...S..."!

How about considering, for the sake of argument, the safety of the 2nd baseman - when the centerfield throws a frozen rope back in, and this same man has now moved 20' to the side; but, is in the line of view of the 2nd baseman?????

Do the parents of that 2nd baseman get to sue someone if/when their kid takes a frozen rope in the face because someone was standing behind the outfield fence???!!!???!!!

What does an umpire do if,
the defense is wearing solid white uniforms;
then,
f3 squeezes towards 2nd
f4 squeezes towards 1st
f6 squeezes towards 3rd
f5 squeezes towards 2nd
and f1 is in the middle,
can the batter/catcher see the ball now?????

Someone better rethink this - freek'n amazing..... jmo

Pete:
Can you give a better link. I went the board and did a search and it came back no matches. To save looking all over the place could you give more info?

[Rog]

Try this -

http://www.umpire.org/cgi-bin/cgiwra...=expanded&sb=5

[rookieblue02]

Man, I just finished reading all that, what a load of crap! Pretty much just "my protective cup is bigger that yours" I agree the guy got sucked into something he shouldnt have, but hey, we all know for next time.

"Therefore, my advice to new or first year umpires is to not become involved with situations "outside the diamond" That is someone else's responsibility"

You aint kiddin' Pete. Thanks for turning me on to another website.

John

It is a bad situation. Unfortunately many LL guys want to go outside and control everything. I have a HS ump that wants bigger games and to move up to college but then he will do something like this in a varsity game. I saw him eject a fan last year. It cost him getting good games because of it.
As to the thread itself, it sounds like a lot to do about nothing. People standing behind the fence isn't that big a deal to start with. I would have a bigger problem behind the plate but not centerfield. I figure there are enough things to worry about on the field I don't need outside too.

[GarthB]

Michael, I agree.

It seems obvious from the posts of those who were there that this guy had a history with the local LL and someone in the Pressbox decided to go after him. Once again the adults screwed up a kids game with petty BS. I'm beginning to think that the LL by-laws must require volunteers to check their brains at the gate.

Unfortunately, the umpire allowed himself to be dragged into the mud along with the other participants. Once that happens, you don't come out clean even if diving in wasn't your idea.

Hopefully a lesson was learned by all.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

If the league rules say fans are not supposed to be in that area, then the game management (not the officials) should rope it off before the game. Preventive officiating if you will - but my God what a stupid rule. AND he had on a white shirt!!!! and a bicycle with two pedals no doubt.

The umpire should never have gotten sucked into this. The ding-a-ling parent announcer does not call the shots any more than any other fan. The umpire decides what rules are going to be enforced and this was a poor decision to let the parent announcer decide now is the time to enforce this line of sight rule. I'm sure the kids and all the adoring fans were thrilled during this half an hour, or more, of outfield arguing and the arrest scene. Glorious entertainment.

Official's decisions are not meant to be debated. Period. That's why coaches and players get ejected. A good official recognizes that it is incumbent upon them to make decisions about the right things; don't make decisions that will be debated by arrogant drunks or obstinate fans. Stay inside the fence.

Just an idea:
The announcer is not that terrribly important (parents know who their kids are). As the umpire you have more authority than anyone else; send the announcer out to resolve the problem. When he comes back and says he can't resolve the problem, tell him to call the police. By that time the game will probably be over - problem solved.

Finally, in any argument/debate, if at all possible, never make ultimatums. You will have to live up to them - and that will change the whole scope of why you are present. Now you can't officiate because you must follow through on your ultimatum before you can return to officiating.

Only my opinions and some similar experiences....

[Jim Porter]

The line of sight rule isn't stupid. It was how that situation was handled that was stupid. Heck, for day games at Fenway Park they have an area in the center field bleachers where they place a black tarp over the seats. They only started doing that a few years ago. In fact, there was a game several years ago where the Red Sox players were complaining about the line of sight, so they cleared that section of bleachers.

The mistake in this situation was made by the District Administrator. That field should not have been awarded such a big game without having a line of sight section in center field masked off. As an ADA myself, I can tell you that no way would we award a league such a game without that already in place.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

And that's the way it should be done..... by the administration. PERIOD.

The only time I, as an umpire, would would do anything like this during an ongoing game is if the field changed - like someone pulled their vehicle into a space where the sunlight reflected off their windshield into the batter's eyes or they left their headlights shining at the batter. Not for a single turd on a bicycle with a white shirt.

Excuse me for the use of the word stupid. If the conditions truly are distacting to the players then it is appropriate to clear out that area.... and as Porter has pointed out even the Major Leagues have a field where it is felt to be distracting to the batters.

I do wonder how all those professional batters before were able to handle the distraction - I mean before some overpaid, whining batter on a cold streak, complained and took away 500 paying seats for the owners. Surely it was some guy in a white shirt that that was causing all the distrction and preventing the batter from focusing on the pitcher and the ball. Gotta start teaching these little leaguers early!

Again, just my opinion, but I think the system goes too far to support the whims of overprotective parents. I would guess that none of the kids would complain unless they had been prompted by their parents or a crybaby coach. Again, a fan calling the shots for an umpire to enforce.... I don't like it.

The preparation should have been done by the administration.