Play at the plate

[MikeStrybel]

High School baseball - R3 and no outs. Tie game in the bottom of the last inning, playoff game between bitter rivals. Right handed BR shows bunt on the first pitch to guage fielder response. Ball one.

With the pitcher going through a very slow windup and ignoring the lead off, R3 makes a break for home. The catcher reacts by stepping up and contacts the batter and blocks the plate prior to receiving the pitch. R3 sees this and goes in hard, standing up in an effort to dislodge the ball. The ball is dropped and R3 touches the plate.

What have you got?

[Ump29]

First, I do not do high school (I am in Canada) so will comment on OBR only. I have catcher interference and also intentional contact (at least in my area). You add your own penalties.

[bob jenkins]

CI.

Delayed dead ball. On the play, R3 is out for interference. Since B2 and R3 didn't both advance, award B2 first and R3 home. Ignore the interference.

(Of course, the coach *could* take the play, but he won't.)

[MikeStrybel]

Fed rules only please. I was asked this question by a coach at a clinic I held last night. He was in the stands at the game and his son was incolved in the collision (the catcher). I can tell you what was called.

Three man crew - the plate umpire ruled interference on the catcher. BR was placed on first and because he had killed the ball, R3 was returned to his original base. He disregarded the malicious contact. Neither coach was happy but both content because they each thought they escaped a blunder by their players. R3 scored on a wild pitch a batter later.

Now...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

CI.

Delayed dead ball. On the play, R3 is out for interference. Since B2 and R3 didn't both advance, award B2 first and R3 home. Ignore the interference.

(Of course, the coach *could* take the play, but he won't.)

Of course it's catcher's obstruction in NFHS rules and malicious contact supersedes obstruction. Except that the obstructed player was NOT the player who caused malicious contact, so to me, that phrase is a red herring.

Without a case play from the NFHS, I would probably deconstruct the play as you did. I'd score the run on the obstruction and eject the player after awarding the bases. Award B2 first, R3 home, R3 is out for the contact, but awarded home on the CI. And ejected.

[bob jenkins]

I didn't (and still don't) read MC in the OP description. Even in FED you can have a "collision" at the plate that isn't MC.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I didn't (and still don't) read MC in the OP description. Even in FED you can have a "collision" at the plate that isn't MC.

The runner sees the catcher, decides to go in standing, dislodges the ball going in hard. It's likely contact above the waist and was a planned decision according to the OP. It reads to me like MC. Regardless, the only differences in our answers involves an ejection for MC, so that part doesn't really matter, I don't think.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

The runner sees the catcher, decides to go in standing, dislodges the ball going in hard. It's likely contact above the waist and was a planned decision according to the OP. It reads to me like MC. Regardless, the only differences in our answers involves an ejection for MC, so that part doesn't really matter, I don't think.

"Contact above the waist" is an NCAA criterion, and used to determine if the runner was attempting to reach the plate or to dislodge the ball.

Has nothing (on its own) to do with MC (or "flagrant contact" in NCAA).

If it was MC, then I agree with your answer. I'm "sure" there's some FED case where B1 hits a homerun, and MCs F3 on his way around -- score the run and EJ.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"Contact above the waist" is an NCAA criterion, and used to determine if the runner was attempting to reach the plate or to dislodge the ball.

Has nothing (on its own) to do with MC (or "flagrant contact" in NCAA).

If it was MC, then I agree with your answer. I'm "sure" there's some FED case where B1 hits a homerun, and MCs F3 on his way around -- score the run and EJ.

It's all part of the picture. Reads like MC to me -- if the runner had time to decide how to handle the play and he went in hard to dislodge the ball in an NFHS game, I'm likely considering it MC. He had the chance to attempt to get around, slide, give himself up, or retreat.

If we had a video, this would be easier.

[MikeStrybel]

In Fed ball, I judge a deliberate attempt to dislodge the ball when not sliding as malicious. 8-4-2c and 8-4-2e also define the runner's actions in this play.

That said, I was troubled by the play and this is what I gave him without referencing a rule book. R3 was out and ejected for MC. Malicious contact supersedes obstruction and the rule book does not differentiate whether it is on the same player or not. The BR is not awarded first and the count remains 1-0 as the pitch cannot be judged since it was killed prior. One coach will be really upset. As the father of the catcher he seemed pleased. Other umpires in attendance argued that the batter should be on first because of the catcher's obstruction.

I welcome comments as long they are constructive and not otherwise. I don't ask when I know. On this play I am not so sure. Thanks again for discussing the play.

[Garth Vader]

bob jenkins is right, being argumentative doesn't help.

[dileonardoja]

If MC occurs before the touch of home, No run, R3 out and ejected. BR to first due to F2 obstruction

[ManInBlue]

Catcher's obstruction AND a balk according to FED rules. R3 awarded home, B awarded 1st base.

I agree with Rich on the MC - only because he made no effort to avoid contact. I agree with bob's assessment of MC, but in this sitch I'm leaning toward it due to the obvious intent to create a collision.

So, I've got R3 scoring then ejected, B on 1B. (pretty much what's been said already)

[dileonardoja]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

...So, I've got R3 scoring then ejected, B on 1B. (pretty much what's been said already)

Why would you have R3 scoring if the touch occurs after the MC?

[bob jenkins]

Let me amend my earlier posts.

IF it was MC, and if it was before R3 touched the plate, then R3 is out, and B2 is awarded first.

See 9.1.1M and 3.3.1X.