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-   -   4 Balks in 1 at bat (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/59576-4-balks-1-bat.html)

BSUmp16 Mon Nov 01, 2010 02:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 699082)
Then I applaud you sir.

OK - Halloween is over - back to baseball.

The "In the Neighborhood" play at second has come under more scrutiny lately. Here is one commentator's take:

The "neighborhood play" is an unwritten rule, which is a bit awkward in a game that has an official rulebook for umpires to follow. Would it be so difficult to create a written rule, with guidelines, for what fielders may or may not do to record an out at 2B while attempting to turn a DP? There are rules for touching a live ball with a catcher's mask, for batting out of order, and for a baseball literally coming apart while in play, but no rule for the everyday occurrence of the "neighborhood play."

So an umpire is asked to interpret the details of a rule that doesn't actually exist. Hard to get that one right.


I tend to agree. You start deviating from the written rules of the game and you're asking for trouble. Having said that - i never make a baserunner retouch his base after a foul ball. There is a line between over-officiating and simply ignoring the written rules, my earlier post was just trying to get some clarification as to where that line is.

MrUmpire Mon Nov 01, 2010 05:19pm

There is no "That Line". There are many lines. Umpires through their experience, background, and knowledge and understanding of the game, have their own line. Those who draw it most apporpriately move up and are successful. Those who don't, don't.

It's similar to Louis Armstrong's famous response to the question of "What is jazz?"

"If ya have ta ask, you'll never know."

Draw your line. As you progress you will move it one way and then the other. It'll curve to include somethings but not others. Watch, work, listen and learn and your line will be right where it's supposed to be.

BSUmp16 Mon Nov 01, 2010 05:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rbmartin (Post 699082)
Then I applaud you sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 699186)
There is no "That Line". There are many lines. Umpires through their experience, background, and knowledge and understanding of the game, have their own line. Those who draw it most apporpriately move up and are successful. Those who don't, don't.

It's similar to Louis Armstrong's famous response to the question of "What is jazz?"

"If ya have ta ask, you'll never know."

Draw your line. As you progress you will move it one way and then the other. It'll curve to include somethings but not others. Watch, work, listen and learn and your line will be right where it's supposed to be.

I'm not sure that in this context comparing baseball (which has a detailed written rulebook, a lot of written caseplays, written interpretations, extensive written manuals and spectators, players and coaches always checking to see if you made the "right" call) to Jazz (where the better you make stuff up "on-the-fly" (i.e., improvise) the better you are) is entirely the right analogy. I get what you're saying, but am a little leery of taking it too far. No one wants to be "officious". Everyone should want to be "official"

MrUmpire Mon Nov 01, 2010 05:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSUmp16 (Post 699187)
I'm not sure that in this context comparing baseball (which has a detailed written rulebook, a lot of written caseplays, written interpretations, extensive written manuals and spectators, players and coaches always checking to see if you made the "right" call) to Jazz (where the better you make stuff up "on-the-fly" (i.e., improvise) the better you are) is entirely the right analogy. I get what you're saying, but am a little leery of taking it too far. No one wants to be "officious". Everyone should want to be "official"

If you take it too far, then you don't get what I'm saying.

As you progress you'll see that the lines become increasingly similar.

Kevin Finnerty Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 699069)
Don't pay any attention to those two. They're two of the cyber bullies that frequent this forum.

I picture them both being about 5' 2" in their stocking feet, weigh about 120 lbs, the upper body of a newborn and have Coke bottle glasses. ...

What are you?

I picture you as a tough-writin' Texan (congratulations, by the way), with all kinds of courage ... for writing critical comments on a message forum. Face-to-face, the courage melts away.

Little people like you, making fun of imagining that others are even littler, well, you are a lot of fun.

yawetag Tue Nov 02, 2010 01:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 699305)
What are you?

You don't know Steven Tyler?

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...steven2006.jpg

dash_riprock Tue Nov 02, 2010 01:53pm

You cannot turn a DP without touching the base (or the runner). Now if the throw is right to F4 (or whomever is covering), and he pulls off just as he receives the throw, he's getting the benefit of the doubt. But an out without touching the base at all (aka the neighborhood play) - no way. Safe - off the bag.

Steven Tyler Tue Nov 02, 2010 05:27pm

Well, since you asked
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 699305)
What are you?

I picture you as a tough-writin' Texan (congratulations, by the way), with all kinds of courage ... for writing critical comments on a message forum. Face-to-face, the courage melts away.

Little people like you, making fun of imagining that others are even littler, well, you are a lot of fun.

Calm down, Charlie Sheen. Nobody took your watch.

I going to be upfront and honest with you. I played in what is now known as Division I (FCS) football at TCU in the old Southwest Conference. I was a starting defensive back my last three years, primarily as a strong safety. I was talked into to going there by a chap named Bob Lilly. Mr. Lilly had played there in the late 50s with the older brother of my best friend in school and today, which is where I had become acquainted with Mr. Lilly in my formative years.

I went head to head against Heisman Trophy winner, Earl Campbell for three years, and I pretty much held my own against the roughest, toughest son of gun I have ever encountered on the gridiron, or anywhere else for that matter.

As a point of fact, I do sit tall in the saddle (Have you even be around a horse?). Therefore, I'm not quite the little person you envision. I now play softball on a team that won the AAA 50 and over National title, where I hit fifth in the lineup and play SS and 3B. I can take it over a 300 ft. fence on occasion.

I've only been in one fisticuff altercation, expert with my older brothers who matriculated to SMU and Texas on football scholarships and they really didn't swing back. It occurred several years ago when my girlfriend (and late wife) and I had gone out dancing for the evening. A guy that was extremely inebriated thought it perfectly alright to walk by and grab her on the butt. After about three failed polite attempts to try and get him to cease such activities, he became belligerent, swung and hit me in the face. Needless to say, I became very agitated, swung and hit him in the mouth. After the fracas was over, I was the one that had to go to the hospital. However, it was only to get one of his front teeth removed from my hand that was embedded in it. Where the other chap went, I don't know.

I don't know if you have been paying close attention, but I have never replied to any poster that knows how to be civil in any critical fashion. I've only done that to the ones that answer in the same critical manner to others, myself included. I'm always amazed that these same posters want to play the part of a martyr when the situation backfires in their face. They have mastered the art of pushing, they just don't understand the concept of pushing back.

Anyway, enough about myself. I very much don't like bragging about my past accomplishments, because there are many others that in the past that have achieved as much, and in most cases more than I. In fact, there are many other individuals that will also do so in the future. Besides, I don't have much of an affinity for blowhards, and I don't wish to become one myself.

In closing, Kevin have a great day and may the upcoming holiday season be special for you and your family. Like Jim Rome says, "I'm outta here".

Steven Tyler Tue Nov 02, 2010 05:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by yawetag (Post 699355)

It would nice, if on occasion, someone would post a picture of myself and my Toxic Twin, Joe Perry....;)

SanDiegoSteve Tue Nov 02, 2010 06:16pm

Just for you, Paul. Nobody knows but Joe Pe-ree.:)

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/q...rosmith_03.jpg

MrUmpire Tue Nov 02, 2010 07:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler (Post 699390)
Calm down, Charlie Sheen. Nobody took your watch.

I going to be upfront and honest with you... Like Jim Rome says, "I'm outta here".

If only those two statements were true.

Steven Tyler Tue Nov 02, 2010 09:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrUmpire (Post 699416)
If only those two statements were true.


Refresh me. Did you say you were in the mental health profession or that you had mental health problems? I'm guessing the latter.....:confused:

biggravy Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSUmp16 (Post 699148)
OK - Halloween is over - back to baseball.

The "In the Neighborhood" play at second has come under more scrutiny lately. Here is one commentator's take:

Got to that part and quit reading.

BSUmp16 Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by biggravy (Post 699443)
Got to that part and quit reading.

Sorry - Too big of a word for you, my bad. Translation: "Commentator" = "Writer" (like everyone else on this forum).

Rich Ives Wed Nov 03, 2010 08:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSUmp16 (Post 699445)
Sorry - Too big of a word for you, my bad. Translation: "Commentator" = "Writer" (like everyone else on this forum).

Wat he meant was "Commentators are clueless so I'm not reading his meaningless comments".


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