LL Doesn't Care

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

But he didn't ask them to ban curveballs (yet) because it's his opinion, not yet backed by reasonable evidence - and he knows it. That's why the studies are continuing.

So far, overuse and fatigue correlate to more damage. Curves don't so far.

But why let science get in the way if opinion? Legend has it that a state legislature once wanted to repeal the law of gravity. People once swore a curve ball doesn't curve.

Some hypotheses turn out to be true, others false. The jury is still out here.

Dr. Andrews performed Tommy John surgery on my college roomate's son. My college roomate asked what he could do, in a preventative sense, to reduce the odds of the same thing happening to his younger son (11 years old at the time).

Dr. Andrews response......

"Don't let him throw a curveball until he needs to shave".


That's good enough for me.



p.s -- "google" Dr. James Andrews -- you'll find a very similar quote attributed to him.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by asdf

Dr. Andrews performed Tommy John surgery on my college roomate's son. My college roomate asked what he could do, in a preventative sense, to reduce the odds of the same thing happening to his younger son (11 years old at the time).

Dr. Andrews response......

"Don't let him throw a curveball until he needs to shave".


That's good enough for me.



p.s -- "google" Dr. James Andrews -- you'll find a very similar quote attributed to him.

When did he make the statement?

Has the evidence, or lack thereof changed since then?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

When did he make the statement?

Has the evidence, or lack thereof changed since then?

The kid had his surgery within the last 18 months.

i haven't seen any comments attributed to Dr. Andrews endorsing the throwing of curveballs any sooner and I would bet you never will.

He told my friend that the studies really won't shed a whole bunch of light on the matter since they are not performed in real-time. In other words, you cannot logistically re-create actual inning/game/season conditions on a sample large enough to make a solid finding.

My buddy has decided to not let his kid pitch..... at all....

[David B]

Originally Posted by asdf

The kid had his surgery within the last 18 months.

i haven't seen any comments attributed to Dr. Andrews endorsing the throwing of curveballs any sooner and I would bet you never will.

He told my friend that the studies really won't shed a whole bunch of light on the matter since they are not performed in real-time. In other words, you cannot logistically re-create actual inning/game/season conditions on a sample large enough to make a solid finding.

My buddy has decided to not let his kid pitch..... at all....

We have a kid right now in 9th grade having surgery. The way it was described is that the curve ball puts pressure on the growth plate and that causes separation and thus the pain.

Shame because he is a good kid and good pitcher. But, he's also been playing tournament ball since he was 10 and throwing curve balls.

Pitch counts might help some, but I think we see in MLB now what happens when you just overdo - look at Strausburg. They are not really saying, but there is major concern about his future from what I read on ESPN.

Of course what good is a pitch count when they pitch 80 or so pitches and then move to F2 and throw another 80 or so plus all the warm up pitches etc.,

Thansk
David

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by David B

We have a kid right now in 9th grade having surgery. The way it was described is that the curve ball puts pressure on the growth plate and that causes separation and thus the pain.

Shame because he is a good kid and good pitcher. But, he's also been playing tournament ball since he was 10 and throwing curve balls.

Pitch counts might help some, but I think we see in MLB now what happens when you just overdo - look at Strausburg. They are not really saying, but there is major concern about his future from what I read on ESPN.

Of course what good is a pitch count when they pitch 80 or so pitches and then move to F2 and throw another 80 or so plus all the warm up pitches etc.,

Thansk
David

I suspect we don't have many catchers or third basemen throwing curve balls.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by David B

We have a kid right now in 9th grade having surgery. The way it was described is that the curve ball puts pressure on the growth plate and that causes separation and thus the pain.

Shame because he is a good kid and good pitcher. But, he's also been playing tournament ball since he was 10 and throwing curve balls.

Pitch counts might help some, but I think we see in MLB now what happens when you just overdo - look at Strausburg. They are not really saying, but there is major concern about his future from what I read on ESPN.

Of course what good is a pitch count when they pitch 80 or so pitches and then move to F2 and throw another 80 or so plus all the warm up pitches etc.,

Thansk
David

I think this is a parental issue as well...I know that nobody wants to hold any parents accountable . The American way today is to blame everyone else.

[greymule]

There was talk of banning curve balls when I played LL 50 years ago.

What used to be called Little League elbow dates back to those days. It was either a piece of bone separating or a strained and slightly dislocated tendon. (One of the big magazines like Time or Life showed x-rays and diagrams.) Naturally, the scare generated calls for bans or other extreme action.

The damage to the elbow resulted from the type of curve ball that many kids first learn to throw—the sidearm curve in which the snap of the elbow contributes most of the spin. From a righty, the ball appears to be coming at the (RH) batter and then curves over the plate, a pitch that can be extremely effective against kids, though it's a "gopher" ball at higher levels. (Obviously, the same break can be obtained purely with the wrist, but a pitcher who has mastered the difficulty of snapping the wrist with good control will try to get on top of the ball and make it drop at least somewhat.)

It was fairly apparent what was damaging the kids' elbows. What was not known, however, was whether throwing the overhand curve (wrist, not elbow) would also have been damaging. Undoubtedly some pitchers hurt their arms from fatigue, too, and as everyone knows, many good LL pitchers are "all arm" if they don't have knowledgeable coaches.

We have a kid right now in 9th grade having surgery. The way it was described is that the curve ball puts pressure on the growth plate and that causes separation and thus the pain.

Do you know—elbow, shoulder, wrist?