CT vs RI New England Regional Video

[David B]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Four umpires and none of them saw this? I'm sorry, but this is just poor umpiring. So now, LL is going to try and get every call right by having "board meetings" with each other and then meeting with the "mystery man" behind the back stop? This is a joke! All of this is because of poor training, poor organization and the "need" to keep everyone happy.

This is baseball! Okay, it's LL, but it's still baseball! Umpires are supposed to make decisions and judgement calls. The calls may not be popular and they may not even be correct but that is how the game is supposed to be run. And don't give me that "trying to get the call right" crap because if you really want to go down that road, why not have a do-over because the base coach made a mistake in telling the runner to go? Yeah, and let's have a do-over because F7 dropped the catch. He really tried, so let's do the play over or better yet, record the out! The kid made a great attempt so why take the catch away just because he dropped the ball!

Sadly this is exactly where baseball for kids is heading ... and its getting there quick. Amazed at what I've seen in the last three years happening in kids baseball.

Thanks
David

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by David B

Sadly this is exactly where baseball for kids is heading ... and its getting there quick. Amazed at what I've seen in the last three years happening in kids baseball.

Thanks
David

It's not kids baseball so much as it's LL baseball. LL goes out of their way to exclude a lot of umpires - umpires who would tend to be better than 50th percentile. Because of the way they run things, their pool of possible umpires is both smaller and generally less talented or at least less trained. That's not to say there aren't very good umpires there - but the really good ones are less common there than elsewhere.

I think other organizations have very good training, coaching, and recruiting of good umpires.

[johnnyg08]

I've tried really hard to not do youth baseball anymore, the last one I did, I had three ejections, bench coach, head coach, and catcher. Unbelievable behavior at the youth level by all parties, I couldn't believe it, much less what other umpires have allowed to occur over the course of a game. Basically all over a bunt attempt that I ruled was not a bunt attempt. Absolutely ridiculous.

[GA Umpire]

Despite none of the umpires seeing this. Which I don't know how true that is b/c I see U1 putting his hands up like "Come on, it hit him". That may not be his intentions, but it appears that way to me. I wonder if anyone else saw it that way.

Now, why is PU asking for outside help? This is a judgment call. Not a rule call. He didn't say "It hit him but he made no attempt" (which I won't ever make on a ball in the dirt, that would be a horse$hit call to make at any level). If he is going to do that, he needs to stay with LL or quit umpiring. Again, it comes back to make your own calls and pay attention when making them.

Bad move by the umpire IMO if he is the one insisting on the TD to help with that call. That is his call to make even after the huddle.

[MD Longhorn]

GA - I think you've read the situation wrong. LL says that what happened is what you allude to... but looking at the video it's rather obvious that PU did not go ask for help on his own. It seems pretty clear that he was ready to live with his call until he was called over by the LL regional personnel behind the fence. It's not the umpire that we should chastise (although I would think if I was in this situation, I would have either ignored the racket behind me, or told the guy behind the fence he couldn't change his call based on something he was told by a guy behind the fence, regardless of where he got his info ... but then again, I'm not a LL ump and I don't work on TV - so who knows if I'd have the balls I seem to think I would have, given that exact situation!)... it's the guys in the booth and behind the fence.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

GA - I think you've read the situation wrong. LL says that what happened is what you allude to... but looking at the video it's rather obvious that PU did not go ask for help on his own. It seems pretty clear that he was ready to live with his call until he was called over by the LL regional personnel behind the fence. It's not the umpire that we should chastise (although I would think if I was in this situation, I would have either ignored the racket behind me, or told the guy behind the fence he couldn't change his call based on something he was told by a guy behind the fence, regardless of where he got his info ... but then again, I'm not a LL ump and I don't work on TV - so who knows if I'd have the balls I seem to think I would have, given that exact situation!)... it's the guys in the booth and behind the fence.

As soon as the PU went to screen he was toast...no matter what he did. He goes along with the LL Eastern Region mucky mucks telling him what to do...we get all over it here on the forum. He goes with what Mike suggested above, the LL Eastern Region mucky mucks would have made sure his move up the LLBB ladder came to a grinding halt. Not that it probably already has.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kjump

as soon as the pu went to screen he was toast...no matter what he did. He goes along with the ll eastern region mucky mucks telling him what to do...we get all over it here on the forum. He goes with what mike suggested above, the ll eastern region mucky mucks would have made sure his move up the llbb ladder came to a grinding halt. Not that it probably already has.

+1

[Fittske]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

It's not kids baseball so much as it's LL baseball. LL goes out of their way to exclude a lot of umpires

I would disagree that "LL goes out of their way to exclude a lot of umpires" LL does not exclude umpires, umpires exclude themselves. LL's policy is simple, If you take money for umpiring Little league baseball, you are not eligible to umpire in any post season tournaments including regional’s and World series assignments. I umpire various levels of baseball from college to high school and little league. I have aspirations of umpiring one day at the little league world series. So out of the 200 + games I umpire every year, I take payment for everything except little league. So for 30 or so LL games I do every year, I donate 100% my time so the kids can have quality umpires for their games. LL strives to be the premiere "volunteer" youth sports organization. When LL reaches the part of the tournament season that is televised, they want to be able to say that everyone participating is a 100% volunteer. Unfortunately some of the “better” umpires are “disqualified” because they refuse to give their time for free.

Granted, there are some poor umpires that can be seen this time of year umpiring LL baseball on TV. I would be the first to agree that some of the umpires have never seen or been to a umpire clinic....but these umpires have "paid the price" of volunteering their time through their local leagues to be there. So getting to umpire on TV is their reward. Any umpire can decide to volunteer their time to LL if they so choose. Those that do, get rewarded, those that don't are left to criticize.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Fittske

I would disagree that "LL goes out of their way to exclude a lot of umpires" LL does not exclude umpires, umpires exclude themselves. LL's policy is simple, If you take money for umpiring Little league baseball, you are not eligible to umpire in any post season tournaments including regional’s and World series assignments.

Semantics. LL creates an environment, via their choices, which excludes a lot of umpires. I'm not saying that NO good umpire would ever volunteer - obviously you (and Rich) are examples of good umpires that do volunteer. I'm saying that the policy eliminates a solid majority of the good umpires out there.

Originally Posted by Fittske

Unfortunately some of the “better” umpires are “disqualified” because they refuse to give their time for free.

This is kind of my point.

Originally Posted by Fittske

I would be the first to agree that some of the umpires have never seen or been to a umpire clinic....but these umpires have "paid the price" of volunteering their time through their local leagues to be there.

Again, exactly my point. LL places emphasis on working for free, rather than training. Other organizations place their emphasis on training. Hence the blatantly obvious quality difference. They are getting EXACTLY what they want - free, low-quality umpires.

I'm not criticizing any umpire that works for LL - kudos to them. I'm just saying the system LL has set up creates the problem we are talking about.

My only real criticism is that you would think, with the amount of TV money LL rakes in, that they would figure out a way to spend some of that on the quality of their product. Seems a little hypocritical to me that the one organization getting HUGE dollars from a TV contract is also the one organization that won't pay to improve their umpires.

[LMan]

Mike hit it on the head. All that moolah from the TV contracts and Frosted Flakes (), and the umpire product is stuck in the 1970s, if not worse - some gems floating out there amongst flotsam.

Shows where the priorities lie. In any organization, people who clearly see they aren't a priority tend to go places they are.

[johnnyg08]

It's a good business model...get 6 umpires out there to work for free and one of your biggest costs locally, the umpire fees...the CEO probably rakes in mid-six figures and expects the umpires nationally to work for free because they're such good people and "doing it for the kids and the betterment of baseball"

A good scam if you ask me.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Semantics. LL creates an environment, via their choices, which excludes a lot of umpires. I'm not saying that NO good umpire would ever volunteer - obviously you (and Rich) are examples of good umpires that do volunteer. I'm saying that the policy eliminates a solid majority of the good umpires out there.

I've probably peaked as a LL umpire. I'm not willing to put in face time at the region or make a pilgrimage to WP every few years in order to be selected. I will continue to volunteer at the local level and will continue to put in an application for regional and WS assignments. I've worked a regional and had a great time, although I'd say that of the 16 umpires at the region, I'd probably walk onto a HS field with about 5-6 of them. And this was a Senior regional, where the quality of play was actually pretty good.

It disappoints me that LL doesn't realize that assigning an umpire is an important task. Clearly, the regions do not find it important as long as they have decent enough guys to work the plate on televised games -- the other umpires can be volunteers with poor timing, poor mechanics, and little incentive to improve as umpires. I am a member of a LL umpire mailing list where the mindset is, "It's OK that the umpire punched the BR out with the ball rolling by the fence. We're all learning here." Listen, by the time someone is hired to work a regional game, they should be outstanding umpires as well as outstanding volunteers. I hold myself to the same standards working a LL game as I did when I worked an NCAA D3 conference tournament.

I've seen it locally. I'm in my 9th season umpiring on the local district (I moved here in 2002). We have about 5 umpires who are outstanding, IMO (and all have worked deep into the HS playoffs and work (or have worked) college schedules), a couple who have the potential, and a bunch of LL lifers who work no higher than the FR/JV level during HS season. Those people come to clinics, don't really listen or make a great effort to improve, and then think they should be given high profile assignments in our tournaments. And sometimes they do, which completely frustrates me.

The problem is, IMO, the money. When the pay is "zero" or even substantially below market rates, the good umpires tend to gravitate towards the gigs that pay well. I don't blame them. I don't count on my umpiring money for much (I'm fortunate to have a very good day job), so I don't mind passing up the $120 Legion DH during LL tournament season -- but not everyone is willing to or can make that choice.

[jicecone]

[QUOTE=Fittske;689185]I would disagree that "LL goes out of their way to exclude a lot of umpires" LL does not exclude umpires, umpires exclude themselves. LL's policy is simple, If you take money for umpiring Little league baseball, you are not eligible to umpire in any post season tournaments including regional’s and World series assignments. [QUOTE]I think your drinking too much of that LL Kool-ade.

I personnally, know of many umpires that were paid for doing LL games and went on to do post season games and paid for that too. Up to and including the WS.

[johnnyg08]

I'm in no way bashing the umpires who volunteer for the intrinsic reward of volunteering...I think that's honorable esp when there are plenty of games in most areas that will pay...or to the umpires that have great paying "A" jobs where the money isn't an issue or they live very close to many fields so the mileage, commute time, and gas money isn't such an upfront expense prior to taxes, but I think as other have already said that you greatly diminish your umpire pool when you expect umpires nationwide to work for free all summer to get a spot at Williamsport. For those who do that, I tip my cap to you, because at this point in my life, I wouldn't make the sacrifice since our season in MN is 6 months long at the longest assuming you earn a spot in the mens state tournament from this weekend - Labor Day. We have to get while the gettin' is good.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It disappoints me that LL doesn't realize that assigning an umpire is an important task.

It's not just LL.....

JJ