Interference / Obstruction Calls

[TheSlav]

I'm not sure if it's me or not, but it seems like I've had more problems with coaches resulting in ejections from a lack of understanding or communication on the INT / OBS calls. I think most of my ejections this year can be traced to one of these calls.

I had two games last night and it was a direct issue in one and the subject of discussion / debate in the other.

In the first game, 11U BB I called a kid out advancing from 2nd to 3rd for INT with the SS. INT runner OUT. The 1B coach started yelling, "Blue, you're wrong, you need contact for INT." There was maybe incidental contact anyway--a little brush as the ball was arriving--but I told him no, all I need is INT and his runner INT with the SS.

The second game was 11U SB and the coaches were relating prior game ??'s they had about fielders OBS his runners by positioning themselves in front of runners as they advanced to obstruct and when his runners ran around them to avoid contact, he says the umpire that night told him he needed contact to call OBS.

I've had similar discussions this year regarding batters INT with C throws, mainly to 2B but occasionally 2B.

Some coaches seem to WANT contact when the rules seem to encourage avoidance of contact (ie: slide rules to avoid--not must slide--no take out slides at 2B, etc.)

Is it that these coaches are that dense, are they just pining for calls in their favor, are umps not communicating the reason for no-calls in these situations by saying "I didn't have contact" rather than I either had INT / OBS or I didn't? Or is it some combination of all three?

The problem is in all these situations--if contact or no-contact is the issue as far as making the call or not-- is that the next words out of the coaches mouths that did not get the call is generally along the lines of "Next time, run him/her over", "Throw it through him/her if you have to", etc. Now you have a dicey situation.

Do we really want to be encouraging this type of comment, conduct or behavior? I know I don't.

I'm just venting a little, it seems to be more prevalent this season, I'm just wondering why that may be.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by TheSlav

I'm not sure if it's me or not, but it seems like I've had more problems with coaches resulting in ejections from a lack of understanding or communication

I did not need to read much more after this. Enough said.

Peace

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by TheSlav

Do we really want to be encouraging this type of comment, conduct or behavior? I know I don't.

I'm just venting a little, it seems to be more prevalent this season, I'm just wondering why that may be.

First of all, take a couple of games off and having said that, , I can relate to what and why your saying this.

As officials we are not there to encourage or discourage, teach or show coaches and players how to play the game, whether or not they know or not know the rules.

You must learn to officiate by the rules and not by your emotions. I learned this more when I officiated Ice Hockey than baseball but, it still holds true.
Whenever I had a coach make statements like this, like an announcement on the field, I would always follow up with, "Coach, you are allowed to instruct your players however you see fit but, if it is in vioaltion of the rules, they will be penalized accordingly."

Make sure you fully understand and recognize OBS/INT when it happens, enforce it and be able to explain why you made the call you did. After that listen to what the coach has to say and let him know you are going to get on with the game. If he insists on continuing, say goodbye and TOSS HIM.

After the last pitch, collect your fee and say have nice day!!!!

[TheSlav]

the lack of knowledge out there....and I am wondering where it comes from. I know coaches don't get and are only interested in the rules as much as they can formulate a strategy around them that will lead to more wins. I was somewhat guilty of that when I coached.

I do officiate by the rules, it's just that in areas like this the rules seem to lend themselves to wildly divergent opinions re: enforcement. That can't be good.

Separate example, today I have PONY tournament games and the catcher sports a skullcap and mask instead of a one-piece, so I tell him "I hope you have a one-piece mask to wear, because the skully is not going to work today." Both he and his coach say "Nobody has made him change all year", No big deal, they changed. I hate to put myself in the position of throwing other guys under the bus for allowing it. I do know some of these guys (coaches and players) will try to pull the "our league allows it" line.

Do you think these guys just testing to see what they can get away with or are we hurting ourselves with uneven enforcement?

It just seems as if more and more I run into those who seem to embody what Yogi Berra was saying when he compared baseball and church, "Many attend, few understand".

Maybe I'm just having a run of new coaches and fans with the growth of travel ball around here. No that big a deal, they make me shake my head sometimes.

JRutledge - you work in my area. Do you see any of this?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by TheSlav

Do you think these guys just testing to see what they can get away with or are we hurting ourselves with uneven enforcement?

I'd say it's more "uneven enforcement" than the coaches. When you get umpires that don't notice it, or don't care, it's not going to be enforced. When it's not enforced, the teams will continue doing it. Give the catcher several games in a row of being forced to wear the bucket -- he'll stop trying.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by TheSlav

Separate example, today I have PONY tournament games and the catcher sports a skullcap and mask instead of a one-piece,

Does PONY require a one-piece? (Just asking -- I don't do anything at that level)

JRutledge - you work in my area. Do you see any of this?

So do I, and I haven't seen anything unusual. Coaches are always "confused" about the specific requirements for OBS and INT and how slightly different situations might change the requirements or the rulings.

OTOH, especially (but not limited to) the lower levels, the umpires might also be confused and rule incorrectly. So, the coach "believes" the incorrect ruling.

[Caesar's Ghost]

I did not need to read much more after this. Enough said.

[TheSlav]

PONY was the last holdout among the youth leagues, I think.

Maybe part of it is these travel teams and tournaments borrowing / modifying different associations rules as well as growing pains of the travel team craze. Anyone with a checkbook it seems can be a travel team coach.

It just seems more prevalent this year.

Thanks, all.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Does PONY require a one-piece? (Just asking -- I don't do anything at that level)

So do I, and I haven't seen anything unusual. Coaches are always "confused" about the specific requirements for OBS and INT and how slightly different situations might change the requirements or the rulings.

OTOH, especially (but not limited to) the lower levels, the umpires might also be confused and rule incorrectly. So, the coach "believes" the incorrect ruling.

[UmpJM]

TheSlav,

Apparently, they're still holding out.

F. Catchers are required to wear proper protective equipment including a mask with throat guard, chest protector, shin guards and protective headgear which gives protection to the top of the head when catching behind the plate. Any player serving as a catcher to warm up a pitcher
shall wear a mask, whether the pitcher is warming up from the mound, in the bullpen or elsewhere.

Maybe the other guys who let him wear the "skully" actually knew the rules the games were played under.

JM

[TheSlav]

I forgot to mention that this particular game was being played using the Little League rulebook in a tournament hosted by a team that plays under a PONY format.

Not sure what format or rule book the out of town team plays under.

Your right that PONY doesn't exclude skullys nationally, but some locals do. I don't do that much PONY either. Most of the travel I do around here conforms to FED rules.

Thanks for the help though, even if it comes with a little sarcasm included.

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

TheSlav,

Apparently, they're still holding out.



Maybe the other guys who let him wear the "skully" actually knew the rules the games were played under.

JM

[UmpJM]

TheSlav,

...even if it comes with a little sarcasm included.

Sorry Sometimes I just can't help it.

In regard to your original question, I work some games in your area as well (Trout, Wing, Judson, Larkin) and I haven't really noticed any "trend" or anything "unusual" either with regard to coaches' reactions to Obs/Int calls.

My personal observation is that if the umpire calls it correctly & decisively, and then administers the penalty correctly and decisively, he rarely gets much "buzz" from the coaches. If he appears indecisive or "fumbles" the ultimate ruling, it's like throwing chum in shark infested waters.

JM

[TheSlav]

I'm the King of Sarcasm at times.

This is the visiting teams rules:

Section VII. Umpire/Rule Books

A. The Official Rules of Baseball MLB are the guidelines to be followed.
B. Pony League Baseball Rules shall override where applicable.
C. 1st use Tri-County Pony League Rules, then USSSA Baseball, then MLB.
D. Any amendments to either of these, passed by the board, will overrule
the above.(Umpire must be 16 yrs old or older)


So it's a PONY organization guided by OBR rules, then PONY rules, then USSA rules playing in a tournament hosted by a PONY guided organization guided by FED rules, with the Tournament rules governed by LLB.

Get it? Got it? Good!!!

As for me, I'm choking on alphabet soup.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

TheSlav,

Apparently, they're still holding out.



Maybe the other guys who let him wear the "skully" actually knew the rules the games were played under.

JM

The 2010 rule (on line) requires NOCSAE approved headgear with flaps providing ear protection (redundant).

2010 PONY Baseball Rulebook - Fullscreen

[TheSlav]

that would seem to rule out skullys. Some rule them out explicitly.

I would not want to be the outlier organization in this. Some poor lawyer would have a field day.

I thought once one organization ruled them out, the others fell into line a few years back, but don't quote me on that. There may be a few renegades or locals that still allow it. Haven't done a USSSA in a couple, but I thought they allowed it after 12. Not sure if they still do.

[Rich Ives]

There are NO NOCSAE approved skull caps, so whether or nor the rules talk about ear flaps, if they require the NOCSAE stamp they require ear flaps.