Lightning/Thunder Delay

[MD Longhorn]

I think I'm actually also "with Pete Booth". My point was not that we should throw out the rule and just play. Heck no. My point was that I KNOW there are groups out there who did not feel the need to buy a meter BECAUSE we have a rule in place and they think that is enough.

If you've been somewhere with a meter, then you've likely seen cases where the meter sees lightning that you did not. Having a meter is MILES safer than just using the 30 minute rule.

Pete - you asked what I do on fields without a meter? Well ... I complain about it, and use 30 minutes. I just don't like it.

And for those that think I'm just complaining and want other people to pick up the tab - in a league where I was UIC for several years - after I complained and complained, someone at a board meeting said, "We just can't afford the $300 for a meter". So for the next two weeks, my crew worked for half price on the insistence that the remainder went toward a meter. So now that field has one.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Crap, now you're going to make me dig. This was in Dallas about 3 years ago. Will get back to you with the article.

I don't know for sure if this was it or not ... seems like the date is longer ago than my memory, and I'm sure that there were 2 deaths in the one I remember. USATODAY.com - Notes: Prep player dies after lightning strike

When the one I remember happened, it was discussed at meetings afterward several times.

Thanks - somehow seems like it would have been bigger news.

[ozzy6900]

You can argue about meters all you want but most leagues that I work with will not spend the money for a meter. What needs to be changed is the stupidity of coaches and parents who cannot understand that lightning causes thunder. In the daylight hours, you normally hear thunder long before you see the lightning (here in CT). This year, our association adopted the 30 minute rule for all games that our umpires officiate. There is a 30 minute wait after thunder or the sighting of lightning. If another bolt is seen or clap of thunder heard, the clock starts again. What pisses me off is hearing the idiot coaches and parents complaining that there is no lightning (bit the thunder is rolling like a rock slide), so why are we stopping the game?

I was doing an evaluation at a JV game last month when we heard thunder and the officials stopped the game as our association mandated. About 15 minutes in, the coaches and parents started getting on the officials. I took out my cell phone and brought up the radar and showed the officials that the cell was moving away and a small rain cell was going to pass to the North. The officials were just about to restart the game after the 30 minute wait but that tiny rain cell ran into a cold front and blew up into a full blown storm in a matter of minutes. Without warning, a bolt of lightning hit the cell tower to our East and the officials called the game. We had to scramble out of there fast as hell as it got very bad, very quick. The way the storm blew up, if those players were on the field, we would have been calling ambulances as bolts were hitting all around us.

I have had the unfortunate experience of watching a good friend get blown apart when a bold of lightning hit him as we were running off the beach. We didn't know much about the effects of lightning other than it was bright, it looked cool raking across the sky and it caused thunder. What more did we need to know? We were only 8 years old and invincible!?!

[DG]

Originally Posted by tjones1

I realize most associations and organizations use the 30/30 rule when it comes to lightning/thunder.

Somehow, I never really thought about it until last week, but...

Do any of you write down the time on your line-up card when a lightning/thunder delay occurs?

I know the time could change a lot while a storm passing through.

No. I just ask HC or scorekeeper what time is it when we stop play. I have never had a game stopped for lightning that was restarted. Around here, once you have seen one, you are going to see a bunch to follow, and/or the bottom is going to fall out and the field will look like a lake.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Thanks - somehow seems like it would have been bigger news.

How could it get any bigger than USA Today?

[johnnyg08]

I'm not saying this to be difficult or disagree with anybody, but how accurate are those meters? And what exactly does the meter measure? I guess the nerd in me is curious.

[briancurtin]

The leagues I work deal with 30/30, including a main field which uses some lightning detection system that we let do the work for us.

I never thought to write the time down on the lineup card, but any time it has been an issue there has been a stopwatch available which we just reset on each lightning strike and mentally note the time the delay started.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by mbyron

How could it get any bigger than USA Today?

You mean loke CNN or ESPN or even our local paper?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by DG

No. I just ask HC or scorekeeper what time is it when we stop play. I have never had a game stopped for lightning that was restarted. Around here, once you have seen one, you are going to see a bunch to follow, and/or the bottom is going to fall out and the field will look like a lake.

We'll have a storm blow through and then clear skies for the rest of the evening. We can have the fields ready in 30 minutes or less.

[Forest Ump]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I'm not saying this to be difficult or disagree with anybody, but how accurate are those meters? And what exactly does the meter measure? I guess the nerd in me is curious.

Nerd on. Lightning detection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

What pisses me off is hearing the idiot coaches and parents complaining that there is no lightning (bit the thunder is rolling like a rock slide), so why are we stopping the game?(

That's the best reason to have a meter, imo. No one argues when the alarm goes off -- they just clear the field and wait for the "all clear."

That said, they aren't perfect and will give both false positives and false negatives. The latter is more problematic, so we must use some common sense -- I've stopped games even when the meter hasn't gone off.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That's the best reason to have a meter, imo. No one argues when the alarm goes off -- they just clear the field and wait for the "all clear."

That said, they aren't perfect and will give both false positives and false negatives. The latter is more problematic, so we must use some common sense -- I've stopped games even when the meter hasn't gone off.

A few weeks ago on a Saturday night, I was working a men's softball game in a park where there was also a couple of LL games going on - one softball, one baseball. The forecast already had t-storm and tornado watches, and you could see in the west/northwest darkening skies.

Sure enough, about the 3rd inning, I hear distant thunder I keep going, as it was very distant, but was definitely keeping an ear out, and an eye open. After another 10/15 minutes, I heard thunder much closer, and cleared the field. I had to explain to one team the 30/30 concept (the other team actually had a fellow school softball ump on it, so they KNEW), and waited...BAM...more thunder....a little closer...I look over to the LL fields...and the idiots are still playing! After another five minutes, and a little more thunder, and even a touch of a distant flash, I actually trudged over - in full plate gear - to the concession stand, and sitting on the counter was a little tiny detector. I actually asked the lady at the stand why the heck they were still playing. She said she was wondering too. I told her the only detectors I need was here - pointing to my eyes and ears. So she started calling for somebody in charge, as I walked away, and they finally stopped play. Meanwhile, me and my partner both figured out that this game (and the one after - a DH), was simply not going to happen, so we we called it. Sure enough, as soon as I had taken my gear off, and driven up the road about five minutes - BAM! - a DELUGE - with multiple lightning flashes.

The whole point of this story is that, no matter what technology you want to trust, your eyes and ears (and experience)are almost always better tools to use - just like during a game!

[UmpJM]

In a neighboring town a number of years back, two coaches were struck by lightning in the outfield of a field AFTER the 30 minutes from the last thunder/lightning. One of them died a few days later and the other recovered and is fine. I've met him. That league's policy now is at the first sign of lightning/thunder, you bang the game and go home.

I do not mess with lightning. First sight of lightning or sound of thunder, I clear the field and start the 30 minute count.

More and more of the fields around here have (collar counties around Chicago) lightning detection systems, with the Thorguard system the most prevalent. It measures the potential for a strike, rather than detecting actual stikes. I have been at some fields with the latter type of system.

Regardless, I agree with ASA/NYSSOBLUE's point that they are not a substitute for your eys, ears, and brain.

I was working a Colt league game a couple of years ago, and it was overcast and "threatening" from the get go. Got through the 1st game, and about the 3rd inning of the 2nd, I thought I might have heard thunder. The field was about a mile from an interstate in a rural area and sometimes when an empty semi hits a bump, it makes a sound kind of like ditant thunder. I checked the sky & started listening more closely. A minute later, I heard what I was sure was thunder.

I immediately called time. And started to announce that the game was suspended and I was clearing the field. The fans are moaning, the coaches start trying to talk me into continuing because "the lightning system hasn't gone off" and they point to it, right on the roof of the concession stand. I tell them I heard thunder and was suspending the game and clearing the field.

Before the next word could get out of their mouths, the damn thing went off. It was fun to see the look on their faces.

We cleared the field & just about the time everybody had gotten in their cars, the skies opened.

Sometimes you get lucky.

JM

[MD Longhorn]

I would agree and disagree with this...

If your eyes and ears tell you there's lightning and thunder, and the detector doesn't - stop the game.

If your detector tells you there's lightning, and your eyes don't... stop the game.

[Rcichon]

Our league mandates this:
Hear it, clear it.
See it, flee it.

30 minute clock on hearing thunder. Next one withing 30 minutes: go home.
See lightning, go home.