I didn't see it but if you were yelled at it was probably well deserved.

Previous thread.....and he never lets me forget it....... :)

PS - It wasn't really a yell....but, it was well deserved! ;) Good point!

OK, poor choice of words on my part then. Here is a citation:

Case Book: 7.3.4 SITUATION B: B1 is at bat with a three-ball, two-strike count. He swings at the next pitch and the ball hits his right fist and, without contacting the bat, goes into foul territory. F2 retrieves the ball and throws to F3 who is covering first base and tags B1 with the ball. RULING: As soon as the ball hit the batter it became dead. B1 is declared out. To have the play ruled a foul ball, the ball would have to have hit the bat first before it touched his hand.

So I guess I am using a poor choice of words. All I am saying is that if he is offering at the pitch and it hits his hands, that does not mean he gets first base. That means the ball is dead is all. No more play until the ball is put back into play by PU. I understand what you guys are saying and I really need to use a better way to explain to the Coaches when something like this happens to me. Thank you for the lesson.

His not getting first base has nothing to do with the ball being dead. The ball is dead whenever it hits the batter. He is not awarded first base because he offered. Hence the expression, "dead ball strike."

You cut me so deeply.

I think I'm done now. :D

The easiest method, I think, is to just plainly tell him the rule.

... it's for your yelling at me ;)

I never said I was perfect. :p

I didn't think he offered either...the Oklahoma coach had to be restrained by the third base coach...he was not happy.

I guess I wonder why a grown man has to be restrained.

Of course, I also watched the Wally Backman video yesterday and couldn't stop laughing -- I wouldn't hire that clown to manage a video store, but apparently the Mets hired him to manage their short A team.

I understand Byron.

Now understand what I am saying. The ball hit the bat. I was incorrect in saying the ball hit his hands, it did not hit his hands. Ball hit bat, ball went foul. That is a foul ball, that is what happened. That is a strike. No matter if he had tried to pull his bat out of the way, which to me it seemed like he was doing however he didnt pull it fast enough. Had the ball hit his hands, YES I agree that it would be a DEAD BALL. No matter where the ball lands. It could go into his damn pocket for all I care.

So can we all now get past the bad quote on my part "The hands are part of the bat"? That was a bad expression on my part. In that case what I was trying to refer to was had he offered at the ball and NOT pulled the bat back, then he would not be awarded 1st base. The ball would be DEAD with a strike added to his count unless that was for strike three. Do we agree with that?

It was way worse than a bad quote! This "hands are part of the bat" is a misunderstanding that just doesn't go away. By stating this phrase seriously, you should expect to get razzed until you begin to really understand how irritating it is to hear this exact phrase over and over from coaches, players, announcers, and spectators. . .and yes, sometimes even from umpires.

By rule, the hands are never ever considered to be part of the bat, so please never say or write that (other than to mock those who say it seriously).

How did Yogi put it?

"If people were perfect, then they wouldn't be."

I think that's how it went. Most of that stuff he says sounds oddly wise.

understood celebur. I totally deserve the razzing and will take it. I just didnt mean it like it came out. As I mentioned I again have learned something. "Open mouth, insert foot".

Why do people say completely nonsensical crap like this? I had a PARTNER (a generally good one, and not a newbie) tell me exactly the same thing this weekend. Don't mislead the newbies with this kind of nonsense.

If you are offering at a pitch, IT IS A STRIKE. If it hit you, it's also a dead ball. Let me ask you this - assume the hands are part of the bat... You have two strikes on you... you offer and the ball goes A) foul, or B) fair. If the hands were part of the bat when you offer on a pitch, like you said, then in A, you still have 2 strikes on you and in B, you have a fair ball and should run to first. Now, Mr. Umpire - is that correct in EITHER case? No. You are out in both cases. Dead ball when it hit you. Strike three because you were swigning.

And pardon the venom... my bad for coming late to the party... but I about had a fit when my partner told me the same thing you said, just two days ago.