well, THERE's a new one
 

OU-Va superregional:

"if the batter swung at it, then the hands are part of the bat. If he didn't, then they aren't."


:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Bottom 8th

Batter showing bunt. PU said he didn't offer, batter was hit by the pitch. Then they got together and ruled he offered.

I was just coming back into the room when they showed the last replay. I didn't think he offered - waiting for another look.

If you saw it, your thoughts?

LMan: I deleted my thread... you win this one. ;)

Just got back in the house in the midst of that. To me it either hit him or it didn't. In this instance, he was pulling the bat back and not offering at the ball, dead ball HBP. Don't know what the umpires ruled though.

The talking heads need to learn more about the game of baseball. I heard them refer to an OBS call during the Miami game and kept calling it interference. :(

we all know the hands are never part of the bat. ever. not ever. not even then.

he was either HBP or he wasn't. what was the count?

It was 0-1 when HBP.

I think talking heads just like to ...wait for it...hear themselves talk.

If he offered, it is just like swinging at the ball and getting hit. Strike. I would like to pose them a question. Can you buy a set of hands attached to the bat at Academy?

Strike... and a dead ball.


Is this a trick question? :D

Yes!!!

And we're going to use their hands for our experiment since they don't seem to use them for READING. That would require effort.:D

If you are offering at a pitch, then your hands are a part of the bat. Nothing more needs to be discussed.

I saw this play in real time. From the outfield camera it seemed that he had offered at the pitch and hit a foul ball.

Now lets still think in real time. As I was watching the play, I could hear a distinctive "TING" as the ball hit the bat. No matter if the batter was pulling the bat back or not that to me is a foul ball. If the batter had actually been hit you would not hear a "Ting" of the bat, you would hear a "thud" from the sound of the hand and the ball would not fly as far as it did. That ball went flying, again another sign it did not hit his hand. I learned this a while back in a Sophs game. Stop, Look and Listen, its not only for crossing Train Tracks.

Now actually I think they got the call correct when they all got together. However I can see why the OK coach got pissed off when PU reversed the call and brought his batter back to the plate.

Citation, please.

Thanks for playing. Don Pardo, tell BK47 about his consolation prize.

If the batter offers and it hits his hands, it's a dead ball strike. Certainly not the same as "the hands are part of the bat" which would imply that offering and the ball hitting the hands would be foul.

As I recall......
 

For those who didn't see the play, after a query by the VA coach (fielding team), the Umps got together to discuss it and they made the correct call.

Then, as if on queue, the OU coach who just had the call reversed, stormed out of the dugout to argue. I had to laugh as it was soooo obvious (to me anyhow) he was mugging for the fans and players - as in, I have to obligatorily argue this to make it look like I'm mad even though I really know it was the correct call.

He was "restrained" and sent back to his dugout by an assistant coach. :p

Right. So even if the ball ends up in fair territory, the ball is dead.

If the hands were part of the bat, that would be a fair ball.

To take a cue from mbyron...how many were in line ahead of him to storm the field? :D

Probably a few!

Besides, get off my case, I went to public schools. :o

Consider it payback for you yelling at me. ;)

I didn't see it but if you were yelled at it was probably well deserved.

Previous thread.....and he never lets me forget it....... :)

PS - It wasn't really a yell....but, it was well deserved! ;) Good point!

OK, poor choice of words on my part then. Here is a citation:

Case Book: 7.3.4 SITUATION B: B1 is at bat with a three-ball, two-strike count. He swings at the next pitch and the ball hits his right fist and, without contacting the bat, goes into foul territory. F2 retrieves the ball and throws to F3 who is covering first base and tags B1 with the ball. RULING: As soon as the ball hit the batter it became dead. B1 is declared out. To have the play ruled a foul ball, the ball would have to have hit the bat first before it touched his hand.

So I guess I am using a poor choice of words. All I am saying is that if he is offering at the pitch and it hits his hands, that does not mean he gets first base. That means the ball is dead is all. No more play until the ball is put back into play by PU. I understand what you guys are saying and I really need to use a better way to explain to the Coaches when something like this happens to me. Thank you for the lesson.

His not getting first base has nothing to do with the ball being dead. The ball is dead whenever it hits the batter. He is not awarded first base because he offered. Hence the expression, "dead ball strike."

You cut me so deeply.

I think I'm done now. :D

The easiest method, I think, is to just plainly tell him the rule.

... it's for your yelling at me ;)

I never said I was perfect. :p

I didn't think he offered either...the Oklahoma coach had to be restrained by the third base coach...he was not happy.

I guess I wonder why a grown man has to be restrained.

Of course, I also watched the Wally Backman video yesterday and couldn't stop laughing -- I wouldn't hire that clown to manage a video store, but apparently the Mets hired him to manage their short A team.

I understand Byron.

Now understand what I am saying. The ball hit the bat. I was incorrect in saying the ball hit his hands, it did not hit his hands. Ball hit bat, ball went foul. That is a foul ball, that is what happened. That is a strike. No matter if he had tried to pull his bat out of the way, which to me it seemed like he was doing however he didnt pull it fast enough. Had the ball hit his hands, YES I agree that it would be a DEAD BALL. No matter where the ball lands. It could go into his damn pocket for all I care.

So can we all now get past the bad quote on my part "The hands are part of the bat"? That was a bad expression on my part. In that case what I was trying to refer to was had he offered at the ball and NOT pulled the bat back, then he would not be awarded 1st base. The ball would be DEAD with a strike added to his count unless that was for strike three. Do we agree with that?

It was way worse than a bad quote! This "hands are part of the bat" is a misunderstanding that just doesn't go away. By stating this phrase seriously, you should expect to get razzed until you begin to really understand how irritating it is to hear this exact phrase over and over from coaches, players, announcers, and spectators. . .and yes, sometimes even from umpires.

By rule, the hands are never ever considered to be part of the bat, so please never say or write that (other than to mock those who say it seriously).

How did Yogi put it?

"If people were perfect, then they wouldn't be."

I think that's how it went. Most of that stuff he says sounds oddly wise.

understood celebur. I totally deserve the razzing and will take it. I just didnt mean it like it came out. As I mentioned I again have learned something. "Open mouth, insert foot".

Why do people say completely nonsensical crap like this? I had a PARTNER (a generally good one, and not a newbie) tell me exactly the same thing this weekend. Don't mislead the newbies with this kind of nonsense.

If you are offering at a pitch, IT IS A STRIKE. If it hit you, it's also a dead ball. Let me ask you this - assume the hands are part of the bat... You have two strikes on you... you offer and the ball goes A) foul, or B) fair. If the hands were part of the bat when you offer on a pitch, like you said, then in A, you still have 2 strikes on you and in B, you have a fair ball and should run to first. Now, Mr. Umpire - is that correct in EITHER case? No. You are out in both cases. Dead ball when it hit you. Strike three because you were swigning.

And pardon the venom... my bad for coming late to the party... but I about had a fit when my partner told me the same thing you said, just two days ago.

Mike, I have already admitted to my mistake. If you are joining the party late please try to read everything.

I agree THE HANDS ARE NOT PART OF THE BAT. My mistake for saying that.

You are correct - I apologize for the overzealous venom. :)

So, the hands are part of the bat, right?







:eek:

Steve,

That is correct:

JM

Yes, Steve, and the foot is part of the base, the head is part of the helmet and the butt is part of the base line.

And if you give me a little time, I'll find something that the testicles can be part of!

:eek:

And you, sir, are out LBW.

ozzy, funny you should say that, the foot is part of the base it seems.

saw a play last weekend in the College Semi-regionals (at least I believe it was the semi-regionals). Anyway, R1 on second, R2 on first. RHP in the setup, see's R1 head for 3rd. Pitcher steps off and runs toward R1 driving him back to second. It seemed as though Pitcher waited to long to throw the ball to whoever was covering second (lets just say it was SS). SS had his foot in front of the bag and R1 slide into and was touching SS foot, not the base as SS got the ball and touched R1. U3 had a great angle, saw the whole play and still called R1 safe while only touching SS foot.

At least these guys got it right.

Baseball Video Highlights & Clips | CIN@WSH: Desmond is ejected after throwing his helmet - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia

What guys and what did they get right? Joe West's a disgrace? Well, maybe they got that right.

The umpires got the call right by calling the runner out as his foot did not remain in contact with the base. It remained in contact with the fielder's foot. See the post by BK47.

I know you don't care for him, but what do you think he did wrong here?

I guess I'm a disgrace, too. I'd toss someone for throwing his helmet like that in any game I work.

Nothing specific, just Joe West's a disgrace to umpiring. They got that right.

I love the game and I love umpiring and I respect both immensely. So how could I possibly approve of Joe West and the manner in which he defames both the game and the umpiring profession?

If he is not a disgrace to umpiring, I guess I am missing something. Try to list some of the ways that he is not a disgrace to umpiring, rather than condemn me for bringing it up, or assume I am biased against the guy personally, which I am not. As a person, I both liked and spent time with the guy in past years. But this is now, and he is now a disgrace to umpiring. There are literally hundreds of qualified umpires dreaming of a shot at a spot he is filling in a way that is a colossal embarrassment to the profession.

Seriously, can anyone please list the ways that Joe West is not a disgrace to the umpiring profession. Everyone who defends his umpiring does so with an emptiness that is quite glaring.

I'm not even asking to list glowing attributes, just some things that make him less than a disgrace as an umpire.

I asked about his handling this situation, not his entire body of work.

Not to defend Joe West, but that statement seems bass-ackwards. If you think he's a disgrace to the umpiring profession, then it seems to me that you should list the ways that he is rather than challenging others to list the ways that he is not.

+1

As advocate for Mr. West, . . .
 

Okay, here goes.

On this play, fly ball to outfield with 1 out and R2 and R3, U2 goes out to cover the catch. U1 Joe West leaves his A position to cover the tag-up at second, and continues to observe R2 as he overslides third. U3 was blocked by R2 in seeing the overslide tag, but signals safe. Might Joe West, however, had a perfect angle from about 75 feet away. OC Dusty Baker asks U3 to go for help and U3 agrees to do so and initiates a conference. Joe West joins his crew near third. U3 admits he had a bad view of the overslide tag, U2 and PU say they did not see it well either, but Joe West says he saw it clearly and that R2 was clearly off the bag when tagged a second time by F5. U3 agrees, decides to change his call, and says so to his fellow crewmembers. Crew chief Joe West then signals the out, heroically taking the heat for U3. R2 discards his helmet in disgust at being properly called out and Joe West properly ej's him.

What a perfectly exemplary umpire! I rest my case.

I would have preferred U3 to signal the out, but presumedly it happened as per above, because no one has shown, and no participant has complained, that Joe West either called the conference or made the out decision.

It's not about this call, okay? Where do you guys get this stuff? Where in anything I wrote did you get that I was blasting him for this specific call, and not his general game?

Here are my exact words:

Nothing specific, just Joe West's a disgrace to umpiring. They got that right.

AND,

I love the game and I love umpiring and I respect both immensely. So how could I possibly approve of Joe West and the manner in which he defames both the game and the umpiring profession?

If he is not a disgrace to umpiring, I guess I am missing something. Try to list some of the ways that he is not a disgrace to umpiring, rather than condemn me for bringing it up, or assume I am biased against the guy personally, which I am not. As a person, I both liked and spent time with the guy in past years. But this is now, and he is now a disgrace to umpiring. There are literally hundreds of qualified umpires dreaming of a shot at a spot he is filling in a way that is a colossal embarrassment to the profession.

1. He's never said that the hands are part of the bat.
2.

You just saw the chance to take a shot at him then. Got it.

2. He has never ruled a player out for abandonment.

3. Isn't CB Bucknor or Angel Hernandez

4. Inventor, entrepreneur and union chief
5.

Wow! This thread is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYY off topic from where it started.

5. As far as we know, doesn't hijack threads
6.

6. Grills a mean chicken breast.

7.

7. Has 2 country albums........
8.

8. Has not released a gangster rap album.

9.

9. Is kind to animals.
10.

10. He never misses a meal
11.