Ozzie's at it again.....

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Has Joe called any of KRods games and called a no stop balk? I thought that that lefties can get away with murder so I watch them close but I can't see the balk in the first one but maybe in the second one in the video I pull up. What did Joe see? The 2B ump echoed it quicker than I would expect so what did he see? The only thing I can think of that would get Joe and the 2B ump to be right behind him is a hanging leg. Anybody seen better videos? Why don't they call the nostop and twitching feet while coming set and yet call this. I think it's because at that level the stop and twitches are meaningless to a runner but whatever Buehrle did can fool an MLB runner. The first runner was certainley fooled and you woudn't expect that at this level.

Buehrle has picked quite a few guys off over the years. The first one I thought was much less egrigious (sp?) than the second. I'm not a baseball umpire, but I'm a lefty and I've pitched before. I know of the "45 degree angle" rule (if that even is one), but to me it looked like Buehrle started leaning towards home like he was going to pitch, then threw to first.

Can someone post the relevant rules?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Buehrle has picked quite a few guys off over the years. The first one I thought was much less egrigious (sp?) than the second. I'm not a baseball umpire, but I'm a lefty and I've pitched before. I know of the "45 degree angle" rule (if that even is one), but to me it looked like Buehrle started leaning towards home like he was going to pitch, then threw to first.

Can someone post the relevant rules?

There is no "45 degree" rule. 8.05 requires the pitcher to step and throw to a base, and that's interpreted as stepping more toward the base than the plate. In practice, that amounts to about 45°.

You can find rule 8 (and the other 9 as well) on the mlb site:
Official Rules | MLB.com: Official info

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

There is no "45 degree" rule. 8.05 requires the pitcher to step and throw to a base, and that's interpreted as stepping more toward the base than the plate. In practice, that amounts to about 45°.

Well... it amounts to EXACTLY 45 degrees... which is why some (many) call it the 45 degree rule. So ... there kind of is.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Well... it amounts to EXACTLY 45 degrees... which is why some (many) call it the 45 degree rule. So ... there kind of is.

My point: it's not a rule. It's an interp. That matters when somebody asks where it is in the rules.

The idea of exactly 45° is ridiculous, since nobody uses a protractor to measure.

[greymule]

But the line from home to the pitcher's plate and the line from the pitcher's plate to 1B are at an angle of greater than 90 degrees.

For the angle to be 90 degrees, the pitcher's plate would have to be halfway between home and 2B, directly on the 1B-3B line. But the "rubber" is a yard in front of that line.

Trig, anyone?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by greymule

But the line from home to the pitcher's plate and the line from the pitcher's plate to 1B are at an angle of greater than 90 degrees.

For the angle to be 90 degrees, the pitcher's plate would have to be halfway between home and 2B, directly on the 1B-3B line. But the "rubber" is a yard in front of that line.

Trig, anyone?

greymule:

I agree with you.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

The second balk was a no brainer, F1 stepped toward HP while throwing to 1B.

The first balk was more nuanced. I guess I was lucky when I watched the video because I thought I saw a shoulder twitch by F1 before he started his motion to the plate the very first time I saw the video and that would be a balk.

Yes, the announcers were funny and clueless.

MTD, Sr.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by greymule

But the line from home to the pitcher's plate and the line from the pitcher's plate to 1B are at an angle of greater than 90 degrees.

For the angle to be 90 degrees, the pitcher's plate would have to be halfway between home and 2B, directly on the 1B-3B line. But the "rubber" is a yard in front of that line.

Trig, anyone?

Distance from front-center pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate: 60' 6"
Distance from back corner of home plate to back corner of first base: 90'
Distance from front-center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 63' 8 5/8"

Angle at home plate formed by foul line and line directly to center of pitcher's plate: 45 degrees
Angle formed by foul line and line from back corner of first to front center of pitcher's plate: 42.2 degrees
Angle formed by lines from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate & from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 92.8 degrees

So I guess its more like stepping to the 46.4.

[JJ]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Distance from front-center pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate: 60' 6"
Distance from back corner of home plate to back corner of first base: 90'
Distance from front-center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 63' 8 5/8"

Angle at home plate formed by foul line and line directly to center of pitcher's plate: 45 degrees
Angle formed by foul line and line from back corner of first to front center of pitcher's plate: 42.2 degrees
Angle formed by lines from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of home plate & from front center of pitcher's plate to back corner of first base: 92.8 degrees

So I guess its more like stepping to the 46.4.

I knew that. Really.
JJ

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by mbyron

My point: it's not a rule. It's an interp. That matters when somebody asks where it is in the rules.

The idea of exactly 45° is ridiculous, since nobody uses a protractor to measure.

mbyron:

I know how to use a protractor and have used one countless times.

MTD, Sr.
Bachelor of Engineering in Civil Engineering, William Rayen School of Engineering, Youngstown (Ohio) State University,

[Altor]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Well... it amounts to EXACTLY 45 degrees... which is why some (many) call it the 45 degree rule. So ... there kind of is.

Uh, it's NOT EXACTLY 45 degrees. When standing on the mound, the angle between home and first is about 92.824 degrees. Halfway would be more like 46.412.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Altor

Uh, it's NOT EXACTLY 45 degrees. When standing on the mound, the angle between home and first is about 92.824 degrees. Halfway would be more like 46.412.

I stand corrected.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Altor

Uh, it's NOT EXACTLY 45 degrees. When standing on the mound, the angle between home and first is about 92.824 degrees. Halfway would be more like 46.412.

Beat ya, but you are more precise.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Beat ya, but you are more precise.

I had to dust off my trigonometry knowledge. It took me a while. Once upon a time, I probably could have done it in my head (save the lookup for the arctan value).

[grunewar]

Major League Baseball investigating Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen, Mark Buehrle and umpire Joe West incident - ESPN Chicago