Francisco Rodriguez bounce or stop?

[stratref]

As far as I watch MLB and its umpiring here is how I understand this.

1) As long as it is what he normally does and is not a change used to deceive someone they normally allow pitcher to get away with it. K-Rod is not the only one to get this "courtesy" I know one of the Mariner relievers does the same thing and doesn't get called, it even gets mentioned once in a while.

2) Early in the season probably not, but after about Mid-May most likely he would as it would be understood by that time it is his normal motion.

3) Unlikely, the balks I see Davidson don't involve not stopping, he calls everything else possible, but unless blatantly horrible I haven't seen him call a borderline "no stop".

Jasper

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by stratref

As far as I watch MLB and its umpiring here is how I understand this.

1) As long as it is what he normally does and is not a change used to deceive someone they normally allow pitcher to get away with it....

2) Early in the season probably not, but after about Mid-May most likely he would as it would be understood by that time it is his normal motion.

...

Jasper

Jasper,

Your understanding is incorrect.

Whether or not it is the pitcher's "normal motion" has nothing to do with whether or not a balk is properly called.

JM

[JJ]

MLB pitchers just don't get called for not stopping. I don't know why not. They just don't.

JJ

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JJ

MLB pitchers just don't get called for not stopping. I don't know why not. They just don't.

JJ

+1

Last I heard, PBUC instruction was to enforce "discernible stop," meaning more than changing directions. MLB seems to allow changing directions to count.

One more reason not to take our cues from MLB.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JJ

MLB pitchers just don't get called for not stopping. I don't know why not. They just don't.

JJ

And as the best pitchers in the world you would expect them to be held to the rules more stringently that H.S. players.

MTD, Sr.

[bossman72]

Balks get enforced in MLB like travelling gets enforced in NBA.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Balks get enforced in MLB like travelling gets enforced in NBA.

I don't think that's necessarily true.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Balks get enforced in MLB like travelling gets enforced in NBA.

Huh? Not even close. Rondo just got away with one the other night that would be the equivalent of not balking a feint to first. Sorry, this comparison is not anywhere near to apt.

[David B]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Huh? Not even close. Rondo just got away with one the other night that would be the equivalent of not balking a feint to first. Sorry, this comparison is not anywhere near to apt.

But it does make one wonder what is actually considered a balk in MLB. I mean you watch them everyday on ESPN and its hard just about everytime to actually see what was the balk.

Sure there are some that are obvious, but not many.

My son and I debated the balk Joe West called the other night and even though I tried to explain it, my son said "he stepped to first". Of course we don't have the angle that the Umpire had which is the best angle, but still ...

Thanks
David

[DG]

Originally Posted by bossman72

Balks get enforced in MLB like travelling gets enforced in NBA.

See "Ozzie's at it again" thread.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Jasper,

Your understanding is incorrect.

Whether or not it is the pitcher's "normal motion" has nothing to do with whether or not a balk is properly called.

JM

I agree that "normal motion" isn't the written rule. There is some degree of "understanding" at the MLB level on what will / won't be called.

I have long maintained that trying to apply MLB balk standards to the level of ball most of us call (including up to fairly high-level college) is futile.

[stratref]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Jasper,

Your understanding is incorrect.

Whether or not it is the pitcher's "normal motion" has nothing to do with whether or not a balk is properly called.

JM

What about my understanding is incorrect?

No body ever mentioned "properly called" the discussion is what was likely to be called and in MLB for what ever reason correctly or incorrectly "no stop" balk are rarely if ever called, epically if that is part of a pitchers "normal motion".

Now for properly called you would be correct, but again that is not the question at hand.

Jasper

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by stratref

No body ever mentioned "properly called" the discussion is what was likely to be called and in MLB for what ever reason correctly or incorrectly "no stop" balk are rarely if ever called, epically if that is part of a pitchers "normal motion".

MLB umpires never consider whether a move is part of a pitcher's "normal motion," a term that does not appear in Rule 8. So that has no impact whatever on how likely a move is to be ruled a balk.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

MLB umpires never consider whether a move is part of a pitcher's "normal motion," a term that does not appear in Rule 8. So that has no impact whatever on how likely a move is to be ruled a balk.

Is this tongue in cheek?

I think that "normal motion" clearly plays an enormous part in the way they call balks. No one said that "normal motion" is in the book.

What I was interested in with K-Rod is that he does it sometimes and not always. This is far worse than letting him get away with it if he did it every time. It gives him a huge advantage.

Joe

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Is this tongue in cheek?

I think that "normal motion" clearly plays an enormous part in the way they call balks. No one said that "normal motion" is in the book.

What I was interested in with K-Rod is that he does it sometimes and not always. This is far worse than letting him get away with it if he did it every time. It gives him a huge advantage.

Joe

Not tongue in cheek, but based on pro instruction. I can't tell you what's in their heads, but I can tell you how they were taught to apply the balk rule.

If I had to speculate about why the "bounce" isn't balked, I would guess that the MLB umpire supervisors have told the staff to call it that way. Remember, those supervisors are some of the oldest umpires alive, and that's how it was called back in the day.

It's not called that way in MiLB.

As for K-Rod, his delivery is so quick, Ricky Henderson would think twice about stealing on him, even on that loopy deuce. I don't see any advantage gained.