Catch question- Bizzaro world play

[eagle_12]

Probably will never happen but wanted to ask about it.

Runner(s) somewhere. Ball hit to F7/8/9 to where the runners would tag and attempt advance. Outfielder thinking that the offensive team might not know the rules and to trick them, tries to "bobble" the ball all the way into the infield to hold the runner. All the way in, he truly controls the ball, never struggles to keep it in flight, just tapping in on the outside of his glove. As he gets to the infield, to throw to a teammate he drops the ball as he goes to grab it with his throwing hand.


Catch or no catch?


This is the NCAA definition of a catch, OBR and FED fairly similar, with the general premise the same.

Catch
SECTION 15. The act of a fielder in getting secure possession in the hand or
glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it, providing the fielder does not use
the cap, protector, pocket or any other part of the uniform in getting possession.
In establishing the validity of the catch, the fielder shall demonstrate complete
control of the ball and that the release of the ball is voluntary and intentional.

Just a question for discussion. I have some thoughts regarding it because, in my judgement, the fielder would satisfy some of the definintion regarding the validity but no firm and secure possession.

I dunno, just a topic for discussion.

[tibear]

This is why the runners only have to tag after the fielder "touches" the ball, not "catch" the ball.

[dash_riprock]

A runner must retouch his base after the ball is first TOUCHED by the fielder (assuming the ball is eventually caught). Bobbling the ball will delay the catch/no-catch decision, but it will not affect when the runner can tag and head for the next base.

[eagle_12]

I understand that the runners don't need to wait for a "catch" only first touching. As it says in the play, the defense is trying to trick the offensive runner(s) hoping they don't know the rules thinking they have to wait for a catch.

My question is simply catch or no catch. Does he show complete control and voluntary release even though there is no firm and secure possesion.

[waltjp]

When did the fielder secure possession?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Unless he had secure possession, no catch. Not rewarding an idiot.

[ozzy6900]

Let's give a simple answer to a simple question.

If the fielder is bobbling the ball all the way to the infield, he has not caught the ball. He has not shown secure possession of the ball if he is bobbling it.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by eagle_12

My question is simply catch or no catch. Does he show complete control and voluntary release even though there is no firm and secure possesion.

A voluntary release is prima facie evidence of a catch.

[kylejt]

He had control, but the release was involuntary. No catch. Pretty simple way to punish the stupid.

[TwoBits]

Okay then: Same sneaky outfielder, but bases loaded with less than two outs this time. Outfielder "bobbles" the ball all the way into the infield, then drops it. Going to let the defensive team get the double or triple play?

[UmpJM]

kylejt,

He never had secure possession in his hand or glove - no catch.

JM

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Okay then: Same sneaky outfielder, but bases loaded with less than two outs this time. Outfielder "bobbles" the ball all the way into the infield, then drops it. Going to let the defensive team get the double or triple play?

I'm gonna say yes. Offense should have known they could run as soon as he touched it. And, if it is close enough to the infield for an infielder to catch, the IFR should be called and there is no chance for a DP or TP. Offense should push the defense into making a play and see what happens.

[MD Longhorn]

10-1-c - no double or triple play. You guys are assuming the ball was DEEP... what if it was outfield, but shallow enough that R3 would be foolish to try to score... crafty OF brings it all the way to the infield and drops it. Giving them a triple play is contrary to the spirit of the rules.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

10-1-c - no double or triple play. You guys are assuming the ball was DEEP... what if it was outfield, but shallow enough that R3 would be foolish to try to score... crafty OF brings it all the way to the infield and drops it. Giving them a triple play is contrary to the spirit of the rules.

Intentional Drop.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

Intentional Drop.

N/A to an outfielder.