3rd world play

[Roger Greene]

Talking with a 2nd year umpire on the way back from a JV softball game tonight and got into detached player equipment and penalties. He posed the following question.


Fed rules. Batted ball spinning in foul territory. F2 throws her helmet and hits ball.

(1) If you judge that the ball could have become fair what is the rulling.

(2) If you judge that the ball had no chance to become fair what is the rulling.

I preposed that it is a point not covered in the Fed book which imposes penalties for the defense touching a fair batted ball with detached equipment, and imposes penalties on a batter or batter-runner who inteferes with a batted ball which could become fair.

In case 1 I advised him that we should declare the ball dead. If it was close enough to the line to sell as a fair ball, then impose the 3 base award. If not, then use
10-2-3g and award 3 bases.

In case 2 I advised to just declare the ball foul and warn F2 not to do that again. If she did it again, then have her removed from the game per 3-3-1o or r.

Your opinions are welcomed. Also, any cites from other rule codes or cases that might apply.

Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Roger Greene
Talking with a 2nd year umpire on the way back from a JV softball game tonight and got into detached player equipment and penalties. He posed the following question.


Fed rules. Batted ball spinning in foul territory. F2 throws her helmet and hits ball.

(1) If you judge that the ball could have become fair what is the rulling.

(2) If you judge that the ball had no chance to become fair what is the rulling.

I preposed that it is a point not covered in the Fed book which imposes penalties for the defense touching a fair batted ball with detached equipment, and imposes penalties on a batter or batter-runner who inteferes with a batted ball which could become fair.

In case 1 I advised him that we should declare the ball dead. If it was close enough to the line to sell as a fair ball, then impose the 3 base award. If not, then use
10-2-3g and award 3 bases.

In case 2 I advised to just declare the ball foul and warn F2 not to do that again. If she did it again, then have her removed from the game per 3-3-1o or r.

Your opinions are welcomed. Also, any cites from other rule codes or cases that might apply.

Roger Greene

Roger

It is covered under Rule 3 Section 3 Art 1 r...ejection in
both cases...I would rule an out in case 1 since ball may
have had opportunity to become fair.....

glen

[oppool]

I know Glen you really didnt mean to say that you have an out in Situation 1 just giving you a little ribbing.


As you all know I dont do Fed but I believe in ASA in both cases even though you probably wont like it or will the offensive coach but you have nothing but FOUL BALL if the contact is made in foul territory. I do believe if you thought the act is intentional then you may eject or warn the catcher besides that foul ball and play on


JMO

Don

[Steve M]

Especially if a JV game, I've got nothing but a foul and a discussion with the defensive coach in between innings. My chapter - based on my recommendation - is handling most infractions in JV games differently than in varsity games. We're not making the call - unless there's something dangerous - and taking the time to explain it to the coach so the coach can teach his player(s). I haven't seen or heard about this one, but we did have a B-R "interfere with F3 fielding a foul ground ball and lost of illegal pitches - mainly double touch or no touch of hands but there was one stepping off and taking several steps toward home (wanted to talk to her catcher). Much of the time around here, the JV coach is only a little less clueless than the players.

Steve M

[whiskers_ump]

Don,

I love catcher's however, Monday nite, and actually it was
my fault, I could have killed a bratter ball catcher. {10U]
My fault because I was not scheduled to do the game and did
not come prepared, but when asked if I would, I said sure, I
think I can handle 1st year 10U's without my gear...Wrong...
Second pitch of the game little bratter catcher just watches
ball come in and no attempt to catch it.....Wham
right off the ear and blood went to flowing. Luckily I only
live 10 minutes from park, so while I was getting ear taken
care of, wife got my mask for me...Just a senior moment on my
part......

glen

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by oppool
I know Glen you really didnt mean to say that you have an out in Situation 1 just giving you a little ribbing.


As you all know I dont do Fed but I believe in ASA in both cases even though you probably wont like it or will the offensive coach but you have nothing but FOUL BALL if the contact is made in foul territory. I do believe if you thought the act is intentional then you may eject or warn the catcher besides that foul ball and play on


JMO

Don

No, I should not have said that, not on foul ball, cause you
can't or should not guess that the ball might become
fair...In fact after re-reading the initial post by Roger,
I have completely blown the whole play...Missed the F2, glad
this is not a real game situation...

Thanks for being kind, Don {grin}

glen

[Roger Greene]

Thanks.

I'm not sure that I like calling a foul ball on a ball that could or would have become fair. Particularly if it takes away advances or scores by runners and adds a strike to batter's count.

I will pass on your advice to Jimmy, and hope I never see this play.

Roger Greene