Was I Trigger Happy?

[MD Longhorn]

[QUOTE=tibear;677527]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

They did have another adult on the bench but the team was done on two counts:
1. They were about to be mercied (down 15 after 5 innings)
2. They didn't have another player on the roster to replace the one ejected, so they couldn't put 9 players on the field.

If this is true, how did you get to ejections number 2 and 3... wasn't the game over at ejection 1?

[tibear]

[QUOTE=mbcrowder;677556]

Originally Posted by tibear

If this is true, how did you get to ejections number 2 and 3... wasn't the game over at ejection 1?

The first two ejections happened very close together (on the same play) and since it was the last at bat, we were going to let them finish their half inning when the third ejection happened.

[MD Longhorn]

[QUOTE=tibear;677634]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The first two ejections happened very close together (on the same play) and since it was the last at bat, we were going to let them finish their half inning when the third ejection happened.

OK, I see ej#2 then... but WHY IN THE WORLD would you stick around to let a team that just took 2 ejections continue playing a game that was over? Seems to me that's begging for problems.

[SanDiegoSteve]

It's never a good idea to continue playing after a game is officially over. There are serious liability concerns.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

It's never a good idea to continue playing after a game is officially over. There are serious liability concerns.

Please say that again for emphasis in case you weren't heard. NEVER is right. I've caught a little grief for not letting them keep playing after it's over. But it's NEVER NEVER NEVER good to keep officiating when the games over. And if everyone realized this, I would catch less grief!

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Mark, Jr. (MTD, Jr.) and I umpired a USSSA boys' 12U travel league game (NFHS rules) this afternoon and fun was had by all, .

Let me set the stage. Team H(ome) had played host to Team V(isitor) the day before on the very same diamond on which today's game was played. The umpires for that game were assigned by the same H.S. umpires association that assigned MTD, Jr. and I to today's game. And the umpires in yesterday's game ejected Team V's HC in their game. And today's temperature was in the mid-80's by the time the game started.

MTD, Jr., called a long fly ball down the third base line by a Team V batter foul in the first inning that upset HC-V; later in the second inning V's pitcher made a very funky move, which was a balk, and I took a second or two longer than I normally would to call the balk because I had to run a replay of it in my mind a second before I called the balk. He said he knew it was a balk but I needed to call it quicker and that this was the second time in the game that MTD, Jr., and I had screwed up. I told him to keep his comments to himself if he wanted to remain in the game.

Now for the fun part. Top of the fifth, with runners on 2B and 3B with one out. B5 rips a double in the gap to right-center and both runners score and enter the dugout immediately after scoring. Team H's HC then requests timeout from MTD, Jr., to appeal the runner on 2B missing HP. MTD, Jr., knew that the runner had missed HP and called him out. Immediately the HC-V and one of his assistants charge MTD, Jr., from the dugout screaming that HC-H cannot make a DB appeal and that the runner is safe. As I head to the HP area, because I am not going to let my partner get doubled teamed by two coaches, Team V's 3B Coach decides to join the party. When I got to the party, HC-V got in my face and started yelling at me about the DB appeal: Ejection #1. Then dugout AC-V got in my face telling me that I couldn't eject HC-V because we screwed up: Ejection #2. Order was restored but before we could get the ball back AC-V started yelling at us while he was walking to the parking lot, and the 3B Coach for Team V started laughing and yelling to him that he was really funny: Ejection #3.

As one can see, fun was had by all, .

MTD, Sr.

[KJUmp]

Mark,
Couldn't you at least have left one of those three EJ's for MTD Jr.????
I guess Dad is still "quicker on the draw" than the youngster.
Nice job having your partner's back....bet the two of you had a chuckle replaying all that on the ride home.

[dash_riprock]

12 year-olds. Jeez.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Mark,
Couldn't you at least have left one of those three EJ's for MTD Jr.????
I guess Dad is still "quicker on the draw" than the youngster.
Nice job having your partner's back....bet the two of you had a chuckle replaying all that on the ride home.

It wasn't a very long drive; the park where the game was played is only 1.3 miles from our home, . We earned our $40 game fee though.

MTD, Sr.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark, Jr. (MTD, Jr.) and I umpired a USSSA boys' 12U travel league game (NFHS rules) this afternoon and fun was had by all, .

Let me set the stage. Team H(ome) had played host to Team V(isitor) the day before on the very same diamond on which today's game was played. The umpires for that game were assigned by the same H.S. umpires association that assigned MTD, Jr. and I to today's game. And the umpires in yesterday's game ejected Team V's HC in their game. And today's temperature was in the mid-80's by the time the game started.

MTD, Jr., called a long fly ball down the third base line by a Team V batter foul in the first inning that upset HC-V; later in the second inning V's pitcher made a very funky move, which was a balk, and I took a second or two longer than I normally would to call the balk because I had to run a replay of it in my mind a second before I called the balk. He said he knew it was a balk but I needed to call it quicker and that this was the second time in the game that MTD, Jr., and I had screwed up. I told him to keep his comments to himself if he wanted to remain in the game.

Now for the fun part. Top of the fifth, with runners on 2B and 3B with one out. B5 rips a double in the gap to right-center and both runners score and enter the dugout immediately after scoring. Team H's HC then requests timeout from MTD, Jr., to appeal the runner on 2B missing HP. MTD, Jr., knew that the runner had missed HP and called him out. Immediately the HC-V and one of his assistants charge MTD, Jr., from the dugout screaming that HC-H cannot make a DB appeal and that the runner is safe. As I head to the HP area, because I am not going to let my partner get doubled teamed by two coaches, Team V's 3B Coach decides to join the party. When I got to the party, HC-V got in my face and started yelling at me about the DB appeal: Ejection #1. Then dugout AC-V got in my face telling me that I couldn't eject HC-V because we screwed up: Ejection #2. Order was restored but before we could get the ball back AC-V started yelling at us while he was walking to the parking lot, and the 3B Coach for Team V started laughing and yelling to him that he was really funny: Ejection #3.

As one can see, fun was had by all, .

MTD, Sr.

I guess that the great, know it all, travel ball coaches never read the NHFS rule book, did they? This is one of the reasons I do not officiate travel ball any longer. Dealing with these morons is not worth the meager remittance in my pocket.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Mark, Jr. (MTD, Jr.) and I umpired a USSSA boys' 12U travel league game (NFHS rules) this afternoon and fun was had by all, .

Let me set the stage. Team H(ome) had played host to Team V(isitor) the day before on the very same diamond on which today's game was played. The umpires for that game were assigned by the same H.S. umpires association that assigned MTD, Jr. and I to today's game. And the umpires in yesterday's game ejected Team V's HC in their game. And today's temperature was in the mid-80's by the time the game started.

MTD, Jr., called a long fly ball down the third base line by a Team V batter foul in the first inning that upset HC-V; later in the second inning V's pitcher made a very funky move, which was a balk, and I took a second or two longer than I normally would to call the balk because I had to run a replay of it in my mind a second before I called the balk. He said he knew it was a balk but I needed to call it quicker and that this was the second time in the game that MTD, Jr., and I had screwed up. I told him to keep his comments to himself if he wanted to remain in the game.

Now for the fun part. Top of the fifth, with runners on 2B and 3B with one out. B5 rips a double in the gap to right-center and both runners score and enter the dugout immediately after scoring. Team H's HC then requests timeout from MTD, Jr., to appeal the runner on 2B missing HP. MTD, Jr., knew that the runner had missed HP and called him out. Immediately the HC-V and one of his assistants charge MTD, Jr., from the dugout screaming that HC-H cannot make a DB appeal and that the runner is safe. As I head to the HP area, because I am not going to let my partner get doubled teamed by two coaches, Team V's 3B Coach decides to join the party. When I got to the party, HC-V got in my face and started yelling at me about the DB appeal: Ejection #1. Then dugout AC-V got in my face telling me that I couldn't eject HC-V because we screwed up: Ejection #2. Order was restored but before we could get the ball back AC-V started yelling at us while he was walking to the parking lot, and the 3B Coach for Team V started laughing and yelling to him that he was really funny: Ejection #3.

As one can see, fun was had by all, .

MTD, Sr.

USSSA has it's own rule book. Why were they using NFHS - or did you just think they were?

In USSSA (OBR) there are no dead ball appeals. I can see why a USSSA coach would be really POed.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

USSSA has it's own rule book. Why were they using NFHS - or did you just think they were?

In USSSA (OBR) there are no dead ball appeals. I can see why a USSSA coach would be really POed.

Let me explain further, the league used to be a USSSA travel league and as an umpiring group we can never be sure about these things except that we have been told by the league (shose director is a high school varsity baseball coach) and the teams, which are coached by parents, for the last two years that the league uses NFHS Baseball Rules because the players are going to be playing NFHS when they get to high school and therefore those are the rules they want used.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

USSSA has it's own rule book. Why were they using NFHS - or did you just think they were?

In USSSA (OBR) there are no dead ball appeals. I can see why a USSSA coach would be really POed.

Rich:

You make a good point about the difference between OBR and NFHS rules. I am sure that many of the posters in the baseball and softball forums know that I am a regular poster in the basketball forum both here and in the NFHS Officials Basketball Forum and that I have officiated both NFHS and NCAA Men's and Women's basketball for over 30 years and was a USA Basketball Referee (FIBA Rules) for 15 years and a basketball rules interpreter and instructional chairman for far more years than I care to remember, and this is a bone of contention with me when it comes to summer baseball.

Lets face it, the vast majority of baseball umpires who umpire at the amatuer level umpire games that use NFHS Rules or should be using NFHS Rules. And while the internet has made it very easy for all of us to get copies of the OBR as well as casebook plays in OBR, 99.9% of our games involve players who are 18U and really should be playing NFHS during the summer because that is what they will be playing when they are in jr. high school and high schoool. I have downloaded copies of the OBR and NCAA baseball rules every year as a reference and really learn about the OBR/NCAA/NFHS differences from reading threads here on Officiatin.com, but lets face it, my baseball umpiring experience and expertise is in NFHS Rules and that is the rule set that youth baseball leagues really should be using.

When it comes to basketball the AAU, YBOA, AYBTour, NYBA, and etc. get one thing right, they use NFHS rules, the exception being AAU girls which uses NCAA Women's (which really is not a problem because the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Wemen's rules are derived from a common rule set: the National Basketabll Committee of the United States and Canada). It would be ludricous for youth basketball to be using NBA/WNBA rules for their summer leagues and tournaments.

Just my two cents.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

USSSA has it's own rule book. Why were they using NFHS - or did you just think they were?

In USSSA (OBR) there are no dead ball appeals. I can see why a USSSA coach would be really POed.

Rich:

You make a good point about the difference between OBR and NFHS rules. I am sure that many of the posters in the baseball and softball forums know that I am a regular poster in the basketball forum both here and in the NFHS Officials Basketball Forum and that I have officiated both NFHS and NCAA Men's and Women's basketball for over 30 years and was a USA Basketball Referee (FIBA Rules) for 15 years and a basketball rules interpreter and instructional chairman for far more years than I care to remember, and this is a bone of contention with me when it comes to summer baseball.

Lets face it, the vast majority of baseball umpires who umpire at the amatuer level umpire games that use NFHS Rules or should be using NFHS Rules. And while the internet has made it very easy for all of us to get copies of the OBR as well as casebook plays in OBR, 99.9% of our games involve players who are 18U and really should be playing NFHS during the summer because that is what they will be playing when they are in jr. high school and high schoool. I have downloaded copies of the OBR and NCAA baseball rules every year as a reference and really learn about the OBR/NCAA/NFHS differences from reading threads here on Officiatin.com, but lets face it, my baseball umpiring experience and expertise is in NFHS Rules and that is the rule set that youth baseball leagues really should be using.

When it comes to basketball the AAU, YBOA, AYBTour, NYBA, and etc. get one thing right, they use NFHS rules, the exception being AAU girls which uses NCAA Women's (which really is not a problem because the NFHS and NCAA Men's/Wemen's rules are derived from a common rule set: the National Basketabll Committee of the United States and Canada). It would be ludricous for youth basketball to be using NBA/WNBA rules (even though they are not all that different from NFHS and NCAA than some people would think) for their summer leagues and tournaments.

Just my two cents.

MTD, Sr.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Lets face it, the vast majority of baseball umpires who umpire at the amatuer level umpire games that use NFHS Rules or should be using NFHS Rules. And while the internet has made it very easy for all of us to get copies of the OBR as well as casebook plays in OBR, 99.9% of our games involve players who are 18U and really should be playing NFHS during the summer because that is what they will be playing when they are in jr. high school and high schoool.

Just my two cents.

MTD, Sr.

Mark I respect your background and your opinion, but you did not answer the question.

Were these USSSA teams really playing under FED rules, or did you just think they should be?