confusing hand signals

[bsaucer]

What are the corect hand signals for the HP umpire:

1. Awarding the batter first base?
2. Requesting help from the 1B umpire on a half-swing?

I was watching a college game and saw the following situation: The batter was attempting to bunt and he was hit by the pitch. The HP umpire called time, stepped in front of the plate, and pointed toward first base several times with his left hand. The batter trotted down toward first base.

The HP umpire kept pointing toward first. Finally, the 1B umpire clinched his fist, and sent the batter back to the plate. The batter argued with him, pointing toward the HP umpire.

My interpretation of that was that the HP umpire was asking the 1B umpire for help on the bunt attempt, and the 1B umpire ruled that "He went".

Is there such a thing as a "check-bunt"?

[jicecone]

How much officiating have you actually done bsaucer?

Do you know what it is like to have the batter square around, the catcher stand up and you the HP ump see none of it. There are times when you are the last person on earth that see the action in front of you. So you rely on your partner.

Now it seems as though this official saw the batter square up for a bunt, get hit and possibly see an attempt to bunt. So he verified it with his partner. What you may have thought, was the HP ump looking for a "checked bunt," when in fact, he was looking to see if the batter attemped to bunt. Which is the same as swing at a pitch and getting hit with it also. Dead Ball , STRIKE.

[bsaucer]

Actually, I'm not an umpire. Should I not be on this list?

My questions was about the two hand signals. How do they differ? It appears that the players and possibly a lot of fans were confused about the signal.

[jicecone]

No, you can be on any list you like. My point was to establish your knowledge of the rules and to point out the difficulty of the position.

The hand signal was an established mechanic in the baseball officiating world and what you thought was "two hand signals" was in fact only one, verifying that the batter attemped to bunt the ball. That is why the umpire had the player return to his at bat. Chances are, the HP umpire was also verbalizing to his partner "Did he go, or in this case did the batter attempt to bunt. Again , sometimes you don't get the chance to see everything when bodies stand up in front of you.

[pastordoug]

quote: "My point was to establish your knowledge of the rules and to point out the difficulty of the position"

While I want to believe you, I have noticed in previous post you have used language like this towards others.

As always this is just my opinion and not meant to do anything other than to remind all this forum provides a great service to all... And not everyone is a seasoned as some. And not everyone is an umpire...

[UmpTTS43]

The PU should have (maybe he did) verbalized "Did he go?" as he pointed to the BU. BU can then give a "Yes he went" or "No he didn't go" answer. If he went, it's a dead ball strike on the batter, if not, he is simply awarded first.

[ManInBlue]

He most likely was asking for help. it is common practice to step away from the plate and point with your left hand to your partner while verbalizing "did he go?" I actually take my mask off and point with it (as it comes off with my left hand) We use our left hand because if you point with your right hand it looks like a strike call. Also we "yell" loud enough for our partner 90'+ away to hear us, there's a pretty good chance the catcher and batter heard us too.

College game you said? I don't point them to 1st base. They have a pretty good idea of where 1st base is.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by bsaucer

What are the corect hand signals for the HP umpire:

1. Awarding the batter first base?

An umpire should never, ever point to first on a walk. There's no reason for it. There is no hand signal for a walk.

"Ball four", at a conversational level gets the point across.

Now a pitch that a heads toward a bunting batter is a tough call. If there's any doubt, it's going toward the batter. Hell, the pitch is in the batters box. Any type of recoil of the bat is good enough for me.

If the umpire saw the batter get hit, the proper call is "Time!" with his hands raised. If he then wishes to get information on the attempt from his partner, it's done with the left hand, with a huge "DID HE GO!?"

[cookie]

"...step away from the plate and point with your left hand to your partner while verbalizing "did he go?..."

End of confusion...simple...

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by pastordoug

quote: "My point was to establish your knowledge of the rules and to point out the difficulty of the position"

While I want to believe you, I have noticed in previous post you have used language like this towards others.

As always this is just my opinion and not meant to do anything other than to remind all this forum provides a great service to all... And not everyone is a seasoned as some. And not everyone is an umpire...

Obviously, you have a problem with those that don't dance around the issues and get to the point. At least you always know where I stand.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by jicecone

Obviously, you have a problem with those that don't dance around the issues and get to the point. At least you always know where I stand.

No, you were an ***. Take the criticism.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Matt

No, you were an ***. Take the criticism.

There. Did that make you feel all "grown up" there , Matty boy. Good job