FED - Three-Foot Running Lane

[mbyron]

I sincerely hope that your state interpreter told the "veterans" that they were wrong.

The lines are part of the lane in every rule code.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I sincerely hope that your state interpreter told the "veterans" that they were wrong.

The lines are part of the lane in every rule code.

your not kidding.. wow ...

[BretMan]

The three-foot running lane was a point of emphasis in our FED state rules interpretation last night. The presenter noted that a batter-runner is considered to be outside the lane when his foot is on the ground entirely outside the lines. That is supported by rule (8-4-1g(2)).

Treat the "foot on the ground entirely outside the lines" the same as a batter hitting the ball with a foot touching the lines of the batter's box (he's not "out of the box" unless his foot is entirely outside the lines) or a batted ball touching a foul line (if it touches any part of the line it's fair, if it's entirely outside the foul line it's foul).

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BretMan

... or a batted ball touching a foul line (if it touches any part of the line it's fair, if it's entirely outside the foul line it's foul).

You're right, of course, but your statement could be misleading.

A batted ball need not be touching the line to be fair: it's fair if most of the ball is on the foul side of the line, but part of the ball is OVER (that is, above) the line when it's touched or settles. (The reference is 2-5-1f, which uses the expression "on or over fair territory.")

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by mbyron

A batted ball need not be touching the line to be fair: it's fair if most of the ball is on the foul side of the line, but part of the ball is OVER (that is, above) the line when it's touched or settles. (The reference is 2-5-1f, which uses the expression "on or over fair territory.")

Settling "on or over" fair territory is only in the NCAA rules. Both OBR and FED require the ball to settle ON fair territory to be fair.

NCAA: 2.27
OBR: 2.00 FAIR BALL
FED: 2-5-1-a

I never realized this before looking it up just now. I have not heard of interpretations to the contrary.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Settling "on or over" fair territory is only in the NCAA rules. Both OBR and FED require the ball to settle ON fair territory to be fair.

NCAA: 2.27
OBR: 2.00 FAIR BALL
FED: 2-5-1-a

I never realized this before looking it up just now. I have not heard of interpretations to the contrary.

OBR says "on or over" for balls bounding past 1st/3rd and for when first touched - for BOTH fair an foul. It just says "on" for a settled ball - for BOTH fair and foul.

Based on the concept that if any part of the ball touches 1st ot 3rd or a foul pole it is a fair ball, then the "on or over" must logicaly apply to a settled ball being fair if on OR OVER.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

OBR says "on or over" for balls bounding past 1st/3rd and for when first touched - for BOTH fair an foul. It just says "on" for a settled ball - for BOTH fair and foul.

Based on the concept that if any part of the ball touches 1st ot 3rd or a foul pole it is a fair ball, then the "on or over" must logicaly apply to a settled ball being fair if on OR OVER.

Based on the rule, "on or over" does not logically apply to a settled ball. I imagine that's why it is included it in the BRD.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're right, of course, but your statement could be misleading.

That thought crossed my mind. I just figured that my truncated description of "fair/foul" would make for a simplier analogy than going into detail with all of the intricacies of the "fair/foul" rule.

Plus, I was aware of the slight difference written into the OBR, FED and NCAA rules about a batted ball being "on or over" fair territory (it's in the Childress BRD) and wanted to avoid that possible tangent.

I guess that didn't work!

[ozzy6900]

The running lane only comes into play when the throw originates from the area of home plate to 1st base. In the OP, F3 fielded the ball beyond 1st base and threw to f2. The running lane does not come into play here at all.

[UmpJM]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

The running lane only comes into play when the throw originates from the area of home plate to 1st base. ....

ozzy,

Can you provide a cite that supports your assertion?

I do not believe it is true.

JM

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

ozzy,

Can you provide a cite that supports your assertion?

I do not believe it is true.

JM

PBUC ruled the throw can come from anywhere. CC was POed but reported it in the BRD

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

PBUC ruled the throw can come from anywhere. CC was POed but reported it in the BRD

Sorry for the delay here. I am aware of the PBUC's opinion and I have never agreed with it. The 3 ft lane was designed to keep the BR from interfering with the throw from F2 to F3 (when it was originally written) because it was common practice for the BR to watch where F3 was setting up and get between him and F2. That is why the rule was originally written.

Since then, the rule has been played with to include throws from anywhere. How in the world does the BR interfere with a throw from F4 to F3 if BR is not in the running lane? In 30 years, I have never called such nonsense and I have never had an argument. The only time I get arguments are when the throw comes from the plate area and the coach doesn't see what I see when I call the interference.

I know that you and others will argue and by all means go ahead. I have never called nor will I ever call a BR out of the running lane unless he actually interferes with the throw coming from behind him!

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by BretMan

. . . a batter-runner is considered to be outside the lane when his foot is on the ground entirely outside the lines. . . . Treat the "foot on the ground entirely outside the lines" the same as a batter hitting the ball with a foot touching the lines of the batter's box (he's not "out of the box" unless his foot is entirely outside the lines)

But BR's foot does not have to be on the ground when the throw hits him, right? If BR's foot is in the air at the time the throw hits him, I look for the last and next placement of the left foot (assuming a fairside violation). If either is entirely on the fair side of the foul line, BR is out of the lane at the time of the possible interference.

Also, I assume ozzy is focusing on the requirement that the throw must be to a fielder at first. It need not come from the home plate area.