Fed Sub Situation

[yawetag]

My argument is that substituting a player several spots down the lineup isn't a projected substitute. It's a straight substitute. The coach is replacing a player with another player. There are no "ifs, ands, or buts" in the substitution. The new player is legally in the game. If he's taken out, then he's done for the day.

projection: A forecast or prognosis obtained by extrapolation

I'm certainly not talking about a situation where the coach says, "Blue, Jones is up 4th this inning. If he comes up to bat, then I'm going to have Smith bat for him." That's definitely a projected substitute.

However, if he comes to me and says, "Blue, I've got Smith coming in for Jones," I'll pull out my lineup card and say, "OK, Coach, that's Smith in for Jones in the 6-spot. Is that correct?" He'll say it is, I'll announce it to the other dugout, and the change is legal. If Smith never comes to bat and Jones takes the field, then Smith is done for the day.

If you can find me a good definition or case play of "projected substitute" in the Rules or Case Book that goes against the ability for a coach to directly substitute any player when the ball is dead, then I'll change my opinion on it. However, I've found nothing that defines my situation as a projected sub.

[dash_riprock]

So in the OP, after Jones singles, the D coach comes out and wants BOO. What do you tell him?

[bbsbvb83]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

So in the OP, after Jones singles, the D coach comes out and wants BOO. What do you tell him?

Assuming D coach brings it to the attention of the umpire before the next pitch (or attempted play, intentional base on balls, etc.): Washington is declared out, runs scored as a result of Jones' at bat are erased, game is over.

[dash_riprock]

We differ, but at least you're consistent.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Dash is right, Ozzy is right, and T is definitely right. You cannot tell the umpire that you are substituting for an offensive player who is 3 places down the order. He cannot be substituted for until it is his turn in the batting order. Here is how you correct the mistake: #20 batted for the player who was due up, and is now considered a legal substitution. That is who the coach meant that # 20 was batting for, not the guy down the line. The umpire should have spotted the coach's error and corrected it before the at bat. But since he didn't, he should correct it following the at bat, and just treat it like an unannounced sub.

[umpjong]

Absolutely Dash is correct. And I for one WILL know were I am in the order when making an offensive change. The biggest reason is because we are not allowed to accept projected substitutions.

Maybe this will help explain why:
Say the coach says between innings, A will bat 4th this inning for D (D has no reentry left). 3 up three down inning follows so A doesnt bat. D goes back out to play defense. You will have a very hard time trying to explain why you wont let him stay in the game.

[johnnyg08]

Yep, I agree with others on here. This simply becomes an unannounced, legal sub.

Play on, game over, whatever the PH did in his AB. The projected sub rule seems to protect the umpires in this sitch. Easy to solve...because for the most part, there's nothing to solve.