The death of the neighborhood play...

[Kevin Finnerty]

The neighborhood is entered by touching the base at some point in the play and not have the throw pull them off and changing the rhythm of the play. It has to be touched at some point to get the neighborhood call.

And that's from an Angel diehard.

And A-Rod was not handcuffed. Good Lord. He got a pitch on the outer half and rode it out. He was slightly late, but he wasn't handcuffed.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

The neighborhood is entered by touching the base at some point in the play and not have the throw pull them off and changing the rhythm of the play. It has to be touched at some point to get the neighborhood call.

If the bolded part of this post was part of the "neighborhood play," it would not be called the "neighborhood play." The "neighborhood" part refers specifically to not touching the base, hence, "in the neighborhood of the base, which was precisely where Aybar was residing at the time of the horrific call by Jerry Layne. Your definition of "neighborhood play" is faulty, and not the way it has been called since, well, always.

[realistic]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

If the bolded part of this post was part of the "neighborhood play," it would not be called the "neighborhood play." The "neighborhood" part refers specifically to not touching the base, hence, "in the neighborhood of the base, which was precisely where Aybar was residing at the time of the horrific call by Jerry Layne. Your definition of "neighborhood play" is faulty, and not the way it has been called since, well, always.

Sorry Steve, you are dead wrong this time. Neighborhood plays have the fielder touching the base at some point but generally not when in possession of the ball. Aybar stayed on the backside of the bag to stay away from the sliding runner. He never attempted to touch the base. Jerry Layne is a very good umpire and had every right to call it the way that he did because he would be castigated now if he called it the other way. He said that he fielder didn't touch the bag and he was substantiated proof that he was correct. If the fielder would have touched the bag at some point, he could have said that the fielder touched the bag.

It doesn't matter how anyone else would have called it in their respective levels, this happened in the ALCS and that is the way it should have been called. Go ask Joe Saunders of the Angels. He will tell you.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

. It has to be touched at some point to get the neighborhood call.

Really? I thought the point of the neighborhood play was not requiring a touch.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Really? I thought the point of the neighborhood play was not requiring a touch.

My understanding is more like Kevin's -- you might not need to be touching the base at exactly the time you've caught the ball, but touch (or make it look like you touched) the base at some point during the pivot. And, the amount of scrutiny I can give it as an umpire depends on the number of umpires and the quality of the throw.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

My understanding is more like Kevin's -- you might not need to be touching the base at exactly the time you've caught the ball, but touch (or make it look like you touched) the base at some point during the pivot. And, the amount of scrutiny I can give it as an umpire depends on the number of umpires and the quality of the throw.

My understanding parallels the part of your post I bolded. And, according to some pro instructors, the debate often is to whom they make it look like they touched the base. Actual touching, is not required.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

My understanding parallels the part of your post I bolded. And, according to some pro instructors, the debate often is to whom they make it look like they touched the base. Actual touching, is not required.

Call whatever you like.

If the infielder glides through it smoothly and well-timed and catches the ball after scraping or tapping the bag, I have an out. If he's merely near the bag with each foot or either foot, and at no time during the play touches the bag, or if he touched the bag and the rhythm of the play is disturbed by a bad throw, which becomes the reason he is taken off the bag, then I don't have an out.

That's the way I learned it from some of its pioneers way before I ever even imagined I'd someday be an umpire.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Call whatever you like.

If the infielder glides through it smoothly and well-timed and catches the ball after scraping or tapping the bag, I have an out. If he's merely near the bag with each foot or either foot, and at no time during the play touches the bag, or if he touched the bag and the rhythm of the play is disturbed by a bad throw, which becomes the reason he is taken off the bag, then I don't have an out.

That's the way I learned it from some of its pioneers way before I ever even imagined I'd someday be an umpire.

No worries. I was just interested in your interpretation, having never heard it before.

It matters not. We stopped giving the neighborhood play about five years ago.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

That's the way I learned it from some of its pioneers way before I ever even imagined I'd someday be an umpire.

Who were they, Daniel Boone and Davy Crockett?

[Ump153]

is greatly exaggerated.

(Apologies to S.L. Clemens)

[tjones1]

I've got to admit... if this play happened in my game working two man, I've got him out and I'm not thinking twice about it. I'm calling him out and setting up for the play at first where I'm making my money.

[robbie]

Steve: I find it hard to believe you so strongly advocate making an incorrect call in the interest of some greater good.

I know this would never happen, but when I see these discussions, I think its so blatent that it woulkd be protestable. Its not a judgement call.

If protested, the ump would have to blatently lie in order for the protest to be overrulled.

Play it out.......
UIC (or appropriate person): What did you see?
Blue: I saw the runner straddle the base, but I felt that he was close enough to grant the out.
UIC: What rule are you applying?
Blue I cant think what he could possibly say)
Offended coach: The rule says..................
UIC: Case closed - Misapplication of rule - Protest upheld
UIC:

[kylejt]

This has been an accepted out for generations at the MLB level. He squared up on three side of the bag, if you watch the catch and release.

Personally, I hate that it's accepted, as it's trickled down to the lower levels of ball, and thrown us all under the bus for not calling it. Now someone has to ask "how close is close enough, if you're not actually going to require them to touch the bag?"

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by kylejt

This has been an accepted out for generations at the MLB level. He squared up on three side of the bag, if you watch the catch and release.

Personally, I hate that it's accepted, as it's trickled down to the lower levels of ball, and thrown us all under the bus for not calling it. Now someone has to ask "how close is close enough, if you're not actually going to require them to touch the bag?"

it WAS accepted IN THE PAST for generations.

It has NOT been accepted in recent years as replays proliferate.

As more and more emphasis is placed on "get it right" and requests for more instant replay increase you'll see less and less of the formerly acceptable calls of all types. And I think that's a good thing.

[johnnyg08]

It's a judgment call though...misapplication/interpretation wouldn't hold up.

Originally Posted by robbie

Steve: I find it hard to believe you so strongly advocate making an incorrect call in the interest of some greater good.

I know this would never happen, but when I see these discussions, I think its so blatent that it woulkd be protestable. Its not a judgement call.

If protested, the ump would have to blatently lie in order for the protest to be overrulled.

Play it out.......
UIC (or appropriate person): What did you see?
Blue: I saw the runner straddle the base, but I felt that he was close enough to grant the out.
UIC: What rule are you applying?
Blue I cant think what he could possibly say)
Offended coach: The rule says..................
UIC: Case closed - Misapplication of rule - Protest upheld
UIC: