Randy Marsh Article

[mrm21711]

Thought this was interesting. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of the Wilson Titanium mask he was wearing when he got a concussion a week ago.

Local umpire ready to return | Kentucky Enquirer | nky.com

[Hock9]

I caught some brief highlights of the Phillies game on Sat 8/29. Marsh was wearing a black mask...couldn't tell what it was since I didn't see any close-ups, but it was not the silver Titanium for sure.

[johnnyg08]

I don't think they ever advertised the mask to be concussion proof...if that's the blow you need to take on the titanium mask to receive a concussion, then 99% of us will be okay.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Randy said that he was going to go back to a regular steel mask that has a little give in it. I'm sold already. I've never had an issue with a steel mask, and a lightweight mask such as the Wilson Dyna-Lite or Chrome Moly is just fine with me. The difference in weight is minimal at most anyway.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Randy said that he was going to go back to a regular steel mask that has a little give in it. I'm sold already. I've never had an issue with a steel mask, and a lightweight mask such as the Wilson Dyna-Lite or Chrome Moly is just fine with me. The difference in weight is minimal at most anyway.

I don't really think the regular "steel" masks give any more than the titanium ones do. The titanium material (Or whatever they use) is just lighter than the steel.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Check out the C.O.R. (coefficient of restitution) and the Rockwell hardness ratings of both 17-4 steel and either 6-4 Ti or 15-3-3- beta Ti, and you will see that steel "gives" more than titanium alloy does.

[briancurtin]

[Disclaimer: I'm not a metallurgist, physicist, or doctor, but...] I doubt any more flex in the material of the mask Marsh was wearing would have helped him that much more. There are clearly differences between titanium and the other grades of metal in masks, but for one single mask shot, I think it's probably negligible.

It's like saying a plastic cup is better than a steel cup because it can probably flex more on impact. You are still getting hit very hard in the balls, and it's going to hurt like hell either way.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Every blow is different. So is every skull and every neck and every brain.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

You are still getting hit very hard in the balls, and it's going to hurt like hell either way.

I believe I have found my new credo. Thanks Brian.

[Hock9]

Does anyone have any experience with this mask? It's the standard All Star double bar frame. The only MLB I've seen use it is Laz Diaz (with the orange all star pads that I personally don't care for).

[Bishopcolle]

I wonder how the Wilson Shock would have taken that shot?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Hock9

Does anyone have any experience with this mask? It's the standard All Star double bar frame. The only MLB I've seen use it is Laz Diaz (with the orange all star pads that I personally don't care for).

To get good info on this mask, email Brad Jurga at All-Star. He will personally answer any questions about this mask. They do extensive testing with a 120 MPH air cannon there, and this mask is the real deal, and the pads (not the a$s-ugly orange ones) are specially designed for the jarring impact that titanium alloy provides. Here is his email address:

[email protected]

[JimKirk]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

Every blow is different. So is every skull and every neck and every brain.

Just wanted to chime in and add to what Kevin and some of you have said. It is very difficult to compare things these days because of what Kevin said, but also every mask is different.

As you know, one with more padding or is heavier is going to absorb more force. And also on the hockey style helmets, ones with frames screwed directly onto the shell will cause the wearer to take a harder hit than ones that do not, like the Shock FX.

So looking at all traditional masks or all hockey style helmets as the same is like comparing apples and oranges.

Also, the direction the ball comes and the place it is hit on the mask will cause different results. For instance, there are places, such as dead center, where a hockey style will be no more protective, perhaps less, than a traditional mask.

I spent some time with the senior engineer at Wilson recently at their place in Chicago. We discussed many of these issues. One thing I wanted to make sure to get from him, and it is true that titanium does not give as well as steel does. How much? I don't know the specifics.

Also how you wear a traditional mask will make the impact different. I had the ability recently to see some NOCSAE style testing up close and found the accelerometer objectively giving a lower severity rating (less force to head) when an umpire mask was worn loosely than one worn tightly.

So what is the next step to making things more protective down the road? I can tell you there are some ideas toward this being discussed, especially from Wilson's engineers, Mark Letendre, trainer for MLB umpires, and to a much lesser degree throw me in there.

We have all been talking about the assistance a mouth guard could be, something Mark Letendre has been suggesting for years. I can also share the hockey style helmet is where much of this focus will be hardware wise, and instead of focusing so much on the frame and shell, much of the discussion in years to come will be in the foam or padding underneath.

Jim Kirk
Owner
Ump-Attire.com

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by JimKirk

Also how you wear a traditional mask will make the impact different. I had the ability recently to see some NOCSAE style testing up close and found the accelerometer objectively giving a lower rating to a umpire mask that was worn loosely than one worn tightly.

Jim Kirk
Owner
Ump-Attire.com

Jim,

Are you saying the traditional masks provides better protection when worn more tightly/snuggly that loosely worn? I have always been told and wear my traditional mask loose enough when you look down, you have one to two fingers of slack between the mask and chin.

Thanks for your input.

[JimKirk]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Jim,

Are you saying the traditional masks provides better protection when worn more tightly/snuggly that loosely worn? I have always been told and wear my traditional mask loose enough when you look down, you have one to two fingers of slack between the mask and chin.

Thanks for your input.

No. I should have been more clear about what kind of rating. You are right that looser is better. Thanks for asking this question to clarify. I may go ahead and insert that in if I can edit that post.

The lower rating I was referring to is what is called a severity rating which derives from the force the head (or fake one) takes behind the mask. So the lower the severity rating, the less force and the better. My apologies for not being clear.

Jim Kirk
Owner
Ump-Attire.com