Inadvertent Foul Call

[mrm21711]

Had a recent situation happen in our association I wanted to put on the board and make sure I had right before getting back to my guys with an answer.

Runner on 1B, game is being played under OBR. Batter hits a line drive down RF line, ball falls appx. 10 feet from the foul line in fair territory. Plate umpire inadvertently calls "Foul Ball" even though as soon as he said it he realized his mistake. However, he did not say anything else and let his call stand and playing action come to a stop. Coach asked for an explanation and for PU to ask his partner - they conferenced and BU was not watching the ball but could tell from the way it was hit it was an obvious fair ball. PU acknowledged he missed the call and it should have been ruled fair. However, he called foul and explained to the coach the ball was foul and the batter returns to the plate - no bases would be awarded, ect.

OBR:

I know in some MLB games both this year and earlier we have seen foul calls overturned by a crew and award bases (Randy Marsh a few years ago awarding a runner home plate after calling a fair ball foul) and enforce outs (Tom Hallion's crew a few weeks ago in Cleveland). However, under a pure OBR sense I am not aware of the rules providing for such determinations. IMO, I would point to the rule saying all judgment calls such as fair & foul, ball & strike, safe & out are final. I think if that PU screws up and calls the ball foul, its foul because that was his call at the time. Obviously the real problem here is poor umpiring as a result of bad mechanics, training, timing, ect.

NFHS:

This is where I got into it with a few of the guys I work with. 5-1-1h clearly states that a batted ball that is inadvertently called foul by an umpire and touches the ground shall be declared dead. Several guys pointed to the spirit of Rule 10-2-3l which states "The UIC shall rectify any situation in which an umpire's decision that was reversed has placed a team at a disadvantage." As I mentioned, they are pointing to the "spirit" of the rule about placing a team at a disadvantage but this clearly does not apply. As we know and has been discussed on this forum, a good case play example of 10-2-3l is a check swing appeal on a ball four/strike three situation that puts a runner in jeopardy - not an inadvertent foul call. 10-2-3l deals with reversing calls and 5-1-1h clearly indicates there cannot be a reversal of an inadvertent foul call on a ball that touches the ground and no runners can be awarded any bases they would have received in the umpire's judgement they would have acquired if the proper call was made.

Does everybody agree with my interpretations under OBR & FED? Thanks.

[bob jenkins]

FED (and NCAA): Agreed.

OBR: It *used* to be that the call could be reversed if no one reacted to it. In your play, though, players reacted. The foul call *should* stand. Now, WTF knows.

[SanDiegoSteve]

IMO, inadvertent foul calls cannot be reversed if even one person stopped playing as a result. You have to live and die with your calls, the way I see it. If you call foul and people are cheering and screaming so loud that nobody hears you or is looking at you (but how would you know?), then maybe. But I don't like the unringing of the bell at all. It just shouldn't be. Buck up and bear down harder next time and live with the call.

[mrm21711]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

OBR: It *used* to be that the call could be reversed if no one reacted to it. In your play, though, players reacted. The foul call *should* stand. Now, WTF knows.

Bob,

Can you provide me with more background on this (such as a rule reference or interpretation)?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by mrm21711

Bob,

Can you provide me with more background on this (such as a rule reference or interpretation)?

I'm sure it's in the BRD, but I don't have that with me right now.

[DG]

Item 500 in the BRD.

"The umpire may reverse a call of foul to fair if he does so immediately and if on player reacted to the original call."

"A call of "foul" to "fair" may also be changed if the call had no impact on the "obvious" outcome of a safe hit."

In this situation if the end of playing action resulted in an obvious outcome, then reverse the call.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

IMO, inadvertent foul calls cannot be reversed if even one person stopped playing as a result. You have to live and die with your calls, the way I see it. If you call foul and people are cheering and screaming so loud that nobody hears you or is looking at you (but how would you know?), then maybe. But I don't like the unringing of the bell at all. It just shouldn't be. Buck up and bear down harder next time and live with the call.

Several years ago, I had a pop-up barely clip the front edge of a clamshell backstop in an infield fly situation, and put my hands in the air and called foul; but it continued its flight and the second baseman came in and camped, and my partner called infield fly. So I just dropped my left arm.

I heard it scrape that bar, but not a soul saw my signal or heard my call (very noisy venue, heat of the moment, etc.). The batter/runner sprinted down the line, until he heard the infield fly call, and then slowed, and the two runners clung to their bases. So, we stayed with it, and it worked out. And maybe the gods have been kind to me and not given me one of those other obvious ones where you kill a play and have to die with it.