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-   -   Marty Foster's call at 3rd base today (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/53883-marty-fosters-call-3rd-base-today.html)

NFump Thu Jul 09, 2009 09:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 613547)
Let's put it this way then: You did say that the umpire's bad call screwed the kids. This is false. The call cost one of many opportunities you had to win the game. The umpire didn't have anything to do with the 5 errors made and/or the 4 HRs your team gave up that really led to your team losing. The kids wouldn't care so much if you didn't make a big deal out of it by losing your cool with the umpire. They don't see it as getting screwed by the umpire without you planting that idea in their heads.



Yep, yep.

zombywoof Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:13pm
If the umpire saw an attempted tag and the ball got there first and the fielder even missed the tag after seeing it in on replay, then I don't see a problem with the ump's call and can easily back up his claim he called the play as he saw it, but if the umpire, as in this case, flat out admits he had the runner out because the ball got there first and saw no reason in his mind to even make sure the fielder attempts to apply the tag says this umpire had zero chance in getting the call right because he has his own rules.

SanDiegoSteve Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof (Post 613603)
If the umpire saw an attempted tag and the ball got there first and the fielder even missed the tag after seeing it in on replay, then I don't see a problem with the ump's call and can easily back up his claim he called the play as he saw it, but if the umpire, as in this case, flat out admits he had the runner out because the ball got there first and saw no reason in his mind to even make sure the fielder attempts to apply the tag says this umpire had zero chance in getting the call right because he has his own rules.
Again, spoken like a true fan of the game. But not spoken like an umpire. This is an umpire forum. Full of umpires. Plus a respected coach or two.

Yes, Marty Foster shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag that we call these plays outs because that's the way Jeter and all the managers in the world want them called. Only when it didn't favor Jeter did he have a problem with the call/explanation. He shouldn't have even opened his big yap in the first place, and none of this BS would have happened.

Derek Jeter has benefitted from the same call hundreds of times in his career, but this time, since he knew he screwed up by trying to steal 3rd with 2 outs and got caught, wanted to deflect the blame from himself and direct it onto Foster. Really classy guy. He and Ascrod are a pair to draw to, I tell ya.:rolleyes:

zombywoof Thu Jul 09, 2009 01:10pm
Sure Jeter screwed up and he deserved to be out, especially since he had no business taking that base unless he can make it, but the fielder has to finish the play and the umpire should've looked for the tag. From his argument, a tag never has to be made because the ball got there first. There's no defending this umpire. He screwed up big time.

SanDiegoSteve Thu Jul 09, 2009 01:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof (Post 613620)
Sure Jeter screwed up and he deserved to be out, especially since he had no business taking that base unless he can make it, but the fielder has to finish the play and the umpire should've looked for the tag. From his argument, a tag never has to be made because the ball got there first. There's no defending this umpire. He screwed up big time.
The only thing he screwed up was telling Jeter what he told him. The call was right. It's not that the ball was there first. That's not the criteria. It's that the ball was so far ahead of the runner, and the tag was down in front of the base long before Jeter arrived. That's why he's out. The fielder has the right (and I feel, responsibility) to get his hand out of there to avoid any injury to himself or the runner.

I don't give a rat's a$$ what Hirschbeck said to the media. He had to say that because Foster told the secret. John was trying to get the genie back in the bottle by saying that they no longer call it like that. Bullsquat! They always have, and always will, give the fielder the benefit of the doubt when the ball beats the runner by an obviously large margin.

jicecone Thu Jul 09, 2009 01:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombywoof (Post 613620)
Sure Jeter screwed up and he deserved to be out, especially since he had no business taking that base unless he can make it, but the fielder has to finish the play and the umpire should've looked for the tag. From his argument, a tag never has to be made because the ball got there first. There's no defending this umpire. He screwed up big time.
It's one thing not to get it, but when you don't get, that you don't get it.

Good Bye

Raymond Fri Jul 10, 2009 08:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 613346)
...
So next time I will just sit in the dugout and let the men in blue stick it to my team up the a$$....
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone (Post 613488)
...

So the next time you think that an umpire or any official shows up a a game you are coaching in, just to screw the kids , then try and lead by example, handle the situation without complaining. (America's favorite past time) You have an oppurtunity to show them how to be one step above the rest, so take it.

And that is how real coaches, "handle said situations" when leading kids.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFlores (Post 613545)
The bolded part is false, I don't ever think an umpire shows up to screw a kid...
I think the bolded terms mean the same thing.

Rich Fri Jul 10, 2009 09:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jicecone (Post 613631)
It's one thing not to get it, but when you don't get, that you don't get it.

Good Bye
And who really cares, anyway.

I think Jeter should get a few safe calls in the next week or two when he pulls the glove up early, is all. Maybe a few neighborhood plays don't go his way, too...

UMP25 Fri Jul 10, 2009 09:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ (Post 613403)
Before you go out to "argue" or "discuss", consider who you are going out to "argue" or "discuss" with. A very simple "You missed that one" should suffice in most cases - and not yelled from across the field. It doesn't sound like that umpire was very experienced, which indicates maybe the league isn't a high level league that hires very experienced officials. Players, coaches and umpires are all learning in this type of league. Sounds like your players are learning that it's OK to "blow your top" at umpires, and it sounds like that umpire is learning that you're a coach with a short fuse.
When you umpire, don't coach, and vice versa. If that means biting your tongue when you coach, that's the price you pay as an umpire who coaches.

We're delighted you coach so the kids can play. Be delighted we umpire so they can play as well, no matter how inexperienced we are and whether or not we measure up to your expectations.

Whew....touchy/feely...not where I usually come from....

JJ
John,

Have you been watching a little too much Oprah? ;)

UMP25 Fri Jul 10, 2009 09:46am
Interesting article
 
Has high-def changed umpiring?

Kevin Finnerty Fri Jul 10, 2009 10:38am
There is no automatic call on a headfirst slide, where the runner evades the tag. I'm sorry, but the automatic call is on a feet-first slide, in which the fielder is imperiled by the slide if he hangs in there. There is no danger from a guy's hands, only his spikes. This was a blown call and a blown explanation.

I have called outs on which the ball simply beat the runner, but it was always one-man or two-man, where you are not on top and the play and the coverage dictates that the call be made that way. But, come on, the guy was right on top of the play and still blew it---badly. And on a headfirst slide, which is employed just for that reason: to evade a tag at the last second. Bad call, bad explanation, bad situation ... 100 percent due to bad umpiring.

TussAgee11 Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve (Post 613547)
The kids wouldn't care so much if you didn't make a big deal out of it by losing your cool with the umpire. They don't see it as getting screwed by the umpire without you planting that idea in their heads.
Steve you are on point. I'm sure that we can all attest that the players who are the worst discipline problems typically come from teams where coaches behave poorly as well. It's all about winning, losing, right, and wrong. It's not about instilling values of hard work, perseverance through adversity, class, and respect.

Coaches who take the responsibility of "standing up to the umpire" so their players don't have to are really just showing players that such behavior is acceptable. Kids follow your example eventually.

jicecone Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TussAgee11 (Post 613842)
Steve you are on point. I'm sure that we can all attest that the players who are the worst discipline problems typically come from teams where coaches behave poorly as well. It's all about winning, losing, right, and wrong. It's not about instilling values of hard work, perseverance through adversity, class, and respect.

Coaches who take the responsibility of "standing up to the umpire" so their players don't have to are really just showing players that such behavior is acceptable. Kids follow your example eventually.
Can I get an AMEN?

SanDiegoSteve Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty (Post 613826)
There is no automatic call on a headfirst slide, where the runner evades the tag. I'm sorry, but the automatic call is on a feet-first slide, in which the fielder is imperiled by the slide if he hangs in there. There is no danger from a guy's hands, only his spikes. This was a blown call and a blown explanation.

I have called outs on which the ball simply beat the runner, but it was always one-man or two-man, where you are not on top and the play and the coverage dictates that the call be made that way. But, come on, the guy was right on top of the play and still blew it---badly. And on a headfirst slide, which is employed just for that reason: to evade a tag at the last second. Bad call, bad explanation, bad situation ... 100 percent due to bad umpiring.
Thanks for weighing in in a timely fashion. Takin' a stand, gotta love it! Like Jim Morrisson, you took a look around, see which way the wind blows.:rolleyes:

feet first = fielder could get hurt

head first = runner could get hurt

a lot of potential for getting hurt leaving the glove down. Jeter could have jammed a finger on F5's glove. I've seen it happen.

insatty Fri Jul 10, 2009 02:56pm
Last night, Angels at Mets, Mets F5 catches liner and tosses to F6 to double up R2. Slow mo shows R2 out by 12 inches, but in real time much closer. Hirschbeck calls R2 safe, who later scores.

Had Hirschbeck made the expected call instead of totally relying on what he saw, he would have been saved from a humiliating mistake.

Seeing isn't always believing, especially for us poor slobs working two- or three-man games. The best angle we develop isn't always the best angle under the unique circumstances of the bang-bang play. In my experience and my observation, making the expected call and giving the benefit of the doubt to the team that earned the call will save our bacons 90% of the time.

Perception is reality. Jeter was out.


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