Would you ask for help?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

If the coach asked in the proper fashion why not just go down to 3rd base and ask...if he says it didn't hit his foot or I didn't get a great look at it then you tell the manager and you look like you are approachable...if you don't ask you look like a harda$$! This would take 30 seconds and I think more times than not the manager would have greater respect for you for asking, he doesn't ask and now the manager goes nuts and gets thrown out and it takes another 5 minutes to get back to playing ball.

Because I am approachable. He approached me and I, in a very calm manner, reminded him that had U3 seen the ball he would've called it immediately.

Being approachable doesn't mean doing everything the coach wants. Being approachable doesn't mean getting help on every situation when asked.

If it means the coach feels he needs to go nuts and get run, well, that's on him. Doesn't mean I'm going to hand the poopy end of the stick to U3.

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Because I am approachable. He approached me and I, in a very calm manner, reminded him that had U3 seen the ball he would've called it immediately.

Being approachable doesn't mean doing everything the coach wants. Being approachable doesn't mean getting help on every situation when asked.

If it means the coach feels he needs to go nuts and get run, well, that's on him. Doesn't mean I'm going to hand the poopy end of the stick to U3.

I didn't say we need to get help on every situation...there are a handful of strange situations that IMO asking for help is beneficial for game management. I am thinking that some of us are scared to ask because we might get information we don't want to hear..."we made a mistake." We all make mistakes and bad calls, we are human.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

I didn't say we need to get help on every situation...there are a handful of strange situations that IMO asking for help is beneficial for game management. I am thinking that some of us are scared to ask because we might get information we don't want to hear..."we made a mistake." We all make mistakes and bad calls, we are human.

Goodness, I have no problem overturning myself. I know I'm not perfect.

However, in this situation, I already know the answer before I even ask the question. We are trained as base umpires, if we are 100% sure that a ball hit the batter to give the plate umpire a second to get it himself and then, if not, to step in and call time and let the plate guy determine if the contact was in or out of the box.

To me, this is an opportunity to calmly explain that to the coach. "Ron, if another umpire had seen that hit the batter, he would've called it. It's what we do. It's what we've always done."

If Gardenhire (who is a knob) decides to explode after this, well, it's not my problem. Goodbye.

(The worst piece of umpiring last night, BTW, was overturning the PU's foul call in the CLE game. Wedge getting tossed was the right thing for him to do -- I would've gotten run, too.)

[Kevin Finnerty]

"[Coach's name], if he saw it hit his foot, he would have killed it. We have no need to ask for help on that, [coach's name]."

Period.

If there is something that can and should be discussed with a partner, I readily and willingly ask. Not on that kind of thing. They'll declare ownership of you if you cave like that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

there are a handful of strange situations that IMO asking for help is beneficial for game management.

The batter hitting the baqll off his foot, or near his foot, hardly qualifies as a strange situation.

I agree with the others -- explain the mechanic to the coach and then get back to the game (including removing whatever obstacles there are to getting back to the game).

[Chris_Hickman]

At the professional level...... I am not going to my partner. At the college level, I would explain to the coach that if my partner(s) saw it off his foot, they would have called foul. Now if the coach keeps insisting on me getting help, I'm going to tell him " ok, I will get help, but you (coach) are going back to your dugout ( or coaching box )...and whatever we come up with, that's the way it's gonna be. You are not going to come back out and discuss it any further. I just got the coach back in the dugout. I want to keep these guys in the game as much as possible. Now if he doesnt like the conclusion we came up with and he comes back out.... I will warn him with the stop sign (hand) not to come out. If he continues...run um'. 90% of the time, they are cool. They just want you to get together. This tactic would never work in the PRO game....I would never even think about doin' in it there.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Chris_Hickman

At the professional level...... I am not going to my partner. At the college level, I would explain to the coach that if my partner(s) saw it off his foot, they would have called foul. Now if the coach keeps insisting on me getting help, I'm going to tell him " ok, I will get help, but you (coach) are going back to your dugout ( or coaching box )...and whatever we come up with, that's the way it's gonna be. You are not going to come back out and discuss it any further. I just got the coach back in the dugout. I want to keep these guys in the game as much as possible. Now if he doesnt like the conclusion we came up with and he comes back out.... I will warn him with the stop sign (hand) not to come out. If he continues...run um'. 90% of the time, they are cool. They just want you to get together. This tactic would never work in the PRO game....I would never even think about doin' in it there.

I just don't get the "keep them in the game at any costs" mentality at the college level. We already bend over backwards as much as possible. It's almost like those coaches just can't deal with somebody telling them "no."

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Because I am approachable. He approached me and I, in a very calm manner, reminded him that had U3 seen the ball he would've called it immediately.

Being approachable doesn't mean doing everything the coach wants. Being approachable doesn't mean getting help on every situation when asked.

If it means the coach feels he needs to go nuts and get run, well, that's on him. Doesn't mean I'm going to hand the poopy end of the stick to U3.

But Rich, even explaining that the BU would kill it if he saw anything isn't going to help. This same situation happened to me twice in a game on Sunday - once in the top and again in the bottom of the 5th. Each time the batter pounds one down in front of him. I'm blocked and don't see any contact, nor does my partner. In each case the B/R was thrown out at first and in each case the player was ejected before he made it back to his dugout.

After the first incident the manager asked me to get help. I explained that the BU would kill it right away if he saw anything. The manager accepted it but his player just kept on arguing.

Similar situation with the second one. Manager asked me to get help. I tell him that it wasn't an appealable play in the top of the inning and it's not appealable now. He's okay but his player drops an F-bomb.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by waltjp

But Rich, even explaining that the BU would kill it if he saw anything isn't going to help. This same situation happened to me twice in a game on Sunday - once in the top and again in the bottom of the 5th. Each time the batter pounds one down in front of him. I'm blocked and don't see any contact, nor does my partner. In each case the B/R was thrown out at first and in each case the player was ejected before he made it back to his dugout.

After the first incident the manager asked me to get help. I explained that the BU would kill it right away if he saw anything. The manager accepted it but his player just kept on arguing.

Similar situation with the second one. Manager asked me to get help. I tell him that it wasn't an appealable play in the top of the inning and it's not appealable now. He's okay but his player drops an F-bomb.

It worked with the right person, didn't it?

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It worked with the right person, didn't it?

You got me there!