Would you ask for help?

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

If the coach asked in the proper fashion why not just go down to 3rd base and ask...if he says it didn't hit his foot or I didn't get a great look at it then you tell the manager and you look like you are approachable...if you don't ask you look like a harda$$! This would take 30 seconds and I think more times than not the manager would have greater respect for you for asking, he doesn't ask and now the manager goes nuts and gets thrown out and it takes another 5 minutes to get back to playing ball.

Read slowly and try to keep up:

At MLB the mechanic is that the BU WILL kill the ball if he sees it hit the batter. The fact that the BU did not kill the ball means that he did not see it hit the batter. Why on earth should the PU ask a BU a question that has already been answered?

Any BU who comes to me on that is getting his butt chewed while he buys the beer after the game.

[Kevin Finnerty]

They're third party observers interpreting the players' actions. They don't know how to play, coach or umpire, and really shouldn't. Now, occasionally, you get a guy who's really a sharp baseball guy as a color man, but never does the play-by-play guy seem like an expert. Some of the sharpest baseball guys I have heard do games are Bob Brenly, Mike Krukow, Don Drysdale and Orel Hershiser. The sharpest pure baseball man/broadcaster I ever heard was the Angels color man in the late-80s, a guy named Joe Torre.

Clowns like Tim McCarver and Joe Morgan are obviously standouts due to their national profile. But some of the local guys (we have to sit through Mark Gubicza in So. California) are abominable. The most telling thing I ever heard said about Joe Morgan and his vaunted baseball knowledge is that he never even smelled a manager's job. He never even coached. Because he can't fool real players, only some fans. Same with McCarver.

It's a rare breed that knows every part of the game. Two guys I'm familiar with came close: Torre and Brenly (managers and catchers).

If there was ever a great retired umpire who could effectively broadcast color commentary, it would be an interesting thing to hear.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

[QUOTE=GoodwillRef;611602]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

bet you go for help on EVERYTHING... your approach is user friendly... QUOTE]

If I think going for help is the right thing to do or if it will help me defuse a potential situation with a coach/manager I will go "talk" to my partner.

Then you are wrong. walking out to your partner is like hey coach Ill do anything for you . now that coach OWNS you he is going to expect that any time he asks you will go and now if you dont he will pitch a fit and you will probably try to keep him in the game when its your own self perpetuating friendly attitude that makes him go off like that.

[Rich]

I was working a DH at a D3 school about an hour from Madison. First game, my plate. R1/R2. Smash down the third base line, pretty much on the line. Fielded on backhand by F5. I point fair, he steps on third, throws to first, end of inning. Coach starts in - "no WAY that's fair"...on and on. I'm already halfway up the first base line, coach decides to join me. He continues on and on and on. I finally make it clear after he repeats himself a few times that he needs to get back to the dugout and he leaves, but not before stopping in front of his (pretty full bleachers) to pick up a bat, whereupon he starts screaming and demonstrating again. I eject him. He charges me. Partner plays rodeo clown.

Game 2, we get a rundown between first and second. They take about 3 more throws than necessary and F3 gets in the way without the ball, R1 slows dramatically to go around F3, I call obstruction, the OTHER coach comes out and almost gets ejected. I probably should've run him, but I really didn't want to run both head coaches from a DH, so he probably got a pass he didn't deserve.

Assignor was there during the obstruction. He called the next day and asked me if anyone would've argued had I not made the call. I told him "I don't know, but it was textbook obstruction during a rundown." He said he didn't think anyone would've argued had I not called it. I asked him whether I should let that guide how I called the game. Then he asked about the ejection in the first game. He asked if I hustled to the line and got a good look at the ball.

Now, this guy umpires and has for over 30 years. He knows EXACTLY when kind of a look the plate umpire gets on a rocket hit down the line. I told him -- as good a look as any plate umpire can get on that situation. My instinct was fair and that was the call. I asked him what kind of look the third base coach gets from his box. Then he asked again why I ejected the coach. I read from my ejection report word for word.

So I guess I see where the OP is coming from. I mean, I think one is expected to bend over backwards and do the splits to be accommodating to the teams around here even considering the fact that these coaches are on the bottom rung of college baseball thinking they're all the next Earl Weaver. And don't expect any backing for a situation. I was told flat out "don't expect that I'm going to back you cause you're the umpire."

So I quit working college baseball in the area and probably won't for quite some time. It's OK, really. It's only 2 months of baseball and it's nice not having someone beg me to work 1PM DH during the week when I'm working my day job. For $185 for 5-7 hours work for 18 innings. With no travel money. And yes, many of my HS games are far better played.

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Thats another problem all together... you didnt have an umpire advocate for an assignor. This has been a growing problem in the sport because people are to afraid to stand up to someone and protect their umpires. I have been one to protect my umpires where I assign and people dont like it at first. However later on they begin to respect and understand it. I mean I wont defend a guy who has done something completely idiotic and admits to it or I find out from a thrid party how it went down. Bottom line I do some serious investigating when that kind of thing goes down and I defend my umpires rather than hang them out to dry. We get enough of that as part of the job

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kcg NC2Ablu

Thats another problem all together... you didnt have an umpire advocate for an assignor. This has been a growing problem in the sport because people are to afraid to stand up to someone and protect their umpires. I have been one to protect my umpires where I assign and people dont like it at first. However later on they begin to respect and understand it. I mean I wont defend a guy who has done something completely idiotic and admits to it or I find out from a thrid party how it went down. Bottom line I do some serious investigating when that kind of thing goes down and I defend my umpires rather than hang them out to dry. We get enough of that as part of the job

Umpire advocate? Shoot, this guy may as well say "I was an umpire, but I work for the coaches now."

[kcg NC2Ablu]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Umpire advocate? Shoot, this guy may as well say "I was an umpire, but I work for the coaches now."

I hear that.... I get that a little more with my college assignors than with hs and others

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Why do MLB umpires refuse to ask for help from crewmates?

That statement is tottaly absurd. Did you see the game the other night when a Foul call was changed to fair?

the umpires got together

2 yrs. ago Mets vs. Braves - Jose Reyes hit a sinking line drive to F7 that was ruled a catch (it was not) the umpires got together and the call was changed.

There are MANY MANY examples where MLB umpires ask for help.

The others have answered. The reason the PU didn't go for help because if anyone of his crew-mates saw the ball hit the batter they would have "killed it". Since they did not "kill the ball" no need to go to them.

Pete Booth

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Umpire advocate? Shoot, this guy may as well say "I was an umpire, but I work for the coaches now."

Sounds as if he DID say that: he just didn't use those words.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Sounds as if he DID say that: he just didn't use those words.

And my response at the end of the season was "I quit." Since he will be there a long time, I guess I'll just have to be happy working all the HS baseball I could ever possibly want. None of which is more than an hour from home, either.

[David B]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

I was working a DH at a D3 school about an hour from Madison. First game, my plate. R1/R2. Smash down the third base line, pretty much on the line. Fielded on backhand by F5. I point fair, he steps on third, throws to first, end of inning. Coach starts in - "no WAY that's fair"...on and on. I'm already halfway up the first base line, coach decides to join me. He continues on and on and on. I finally make it clear after he repeats himself a few times that he needs to get back to the dugout and he leaves, but not before stopping in front of his (pretty full bleachers) to pick up a bat, whereupon he starts screaming and demonstrating again. I eject him. He charges me. Partner plays rodeo clown.

Game 2, we get a rundown between first and second. They take about 3 more throws than necessary and F3 gets in the way without the ball, R1 slows dramatically to go around F3, I call obstruction, the OTHER coach comes out and almost gets ejected. I probably should've run him, but I really didn't want to run both head coaches from a DH, so he probably got a pass he didn't deserve.

Assignor was there during the obstruction. He called the next day and asked me if anyone would've argued had I not made the call. I told him "I don't know, but it was textbook obstruction during a rundown." He said he didn't think anyone would've argued had I not called it. I asked him whether I should let that guide how I called the game. Then he asked about the ejection in the first game. He asked if I hustled to the line and got a good look at the ball.

Now, this guy umpires and has for over 30 years. He knows EXACTLY when kind of a look the plate umpire gets on a rocket hit down the line. I told him -- as good a look as any plate umpire can get on that situation. My instinct was fair and that was the call. I asked him what kind of look the third base coach gets from his box. Then he asked again why I ejected the coach. I read from my ejection report word for word.

So I guess I see where the OP is coming from. I mean, I think one is expected to bend over backwards and do the splits to be accommodating to the teams around here even considering the fact that these coaches are on the bottom rung of college baseball thinking they're all the next Earl Weaver. And don't expect any backing for a situation. I was told flat out "don't expect that I'm going to back you cause you're the umpire."

So I quit working college baseball in the area and probably won't for quite some time. It's OK, really. It's only 2 months of baseball and it's nice not having someone beg me to work 1PM DH during the week when I'm working my day job. For $185 for 5-7 hours work for 18 innings. With no travel money. And yes, many of my HS games are far better played.

I agree totally Rich. I also quit calling college games several years ago because I also had an assisgnor who expected us to bend over and bow to the coaches.

I would not do it and he started cutting my schedule, so I just quit and went back to doing HS which in our area is better baseball anyway. (and the games are played at night so it doesn't affect my job)

When I was in TX, the coaches wanted us to come and tryout (do a scrimmage game) before we were allowed to call their games at certain schools. I told my assisgnor, I don't want to work at those schools (even if they were D1) simply because I'm not going to cater to a coach.

I'm sure there are many umpires who will "go along" with this philosophy just to be able to do the games, I'm sorry I just can't do that. My integrity is more important than trying to babysit college coaches who are making "way too much money".

Thanks
David

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

And my response at the end of the season was "I quit." Since he will be there a long time, I guess I'll just have to be happy working all the HS baseball I could ever possibly want. None of which is more than an hour from home, either.

This is one of the main reasons I didn't jump ship in the early 90s when I had a chance to work college ball. My association lost the college games to an upstart association that used "collegiate" in their title. Our association prohibited dual-membership. You had to either stay with it, or burn your bridge with any HS ball. My assignor was (and still is) an umpire's umpire, who wouldn't take any crap off coaches, and in cases like yours would have backed you all the way. I did not want to go work for anyone else, because this guy always came to my defense with the area HS coaches.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Twins manager Ron Gardenhire questions HP umpire Larry Vanover that the ball hit is batter's foot, he was put out by the 1st basemen, he is asking very nicely. He then asked Vanover if he would ask 3rd base umpire Charlie Reliford for help and Vanover tells him 'NO" and then he throws his hat and goes crazy and gets thrown out of the game. Why do MLB umpires refuse to ask for help from crewmates? Replay shows that the ball did hit his foot and should had been a fould ball. Would you ask the 3rd base umpire for help on this play? I would.

I think this is a rule that should be changed. It's a difficult call to make, is missed (one way or the other) frequently, and no one can hit the ball off their foot intentionally to gain an advantage.

So, I think the rule should be that if the ball goes sharply and directly from the bat to the batter, the ball is in play the same as if it hadn't hit the batter (that is, it becomes fair or foul depending on what happens next), except the ball is no longer in flight.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think this is a rule that should be changed. It's a difficult call to make, is missed (one way or the other) frequently, and no one can hit the ball off their foot intentionally to gain an advantage.

So, I think the rule should be that if the ball goes sharply and directly from the bat to the batter, the ball is in play the same as if it hadn't hit the batter (that is, it becomes fair or foul depending on what happens next), except the ball is no longer in flight.

That would be a brutal rule. Batter breaks his leg after the ball hit him and now is out at 1B.

That would be nothing but trouble. But, speeds up the game b/c the catcher just has to tag the runner now. No need to throw it. And, imagine how many more DPs would occur b/c the catcher would just tag HP and tag the runner who is lying on the ground in pain next to him.

[johnnyg08]

There's lots of easy outs in baseball.