Changing a foul ball to fair

[jkumpire]

Wasn't it just a couple of years ago they put in the "Brinkman Rule", once you kill a ball, by calling it foul it is dead? I understand the pressure MLB guys are under, no matter what you are drawn and quartered on SportsCenter for making a mistake. But so what?

You kill the ball, it's foul. It has to be a dead play. Ugly, ugly call in Cleveland, and if any of us made it on any level, we would be ejecting half of a field we were working on.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Ugly, ugly call in Cleveland, and if any of us made it on any level, we would be ejecting half of a field we were working on.

Not only that, but we would be given a very poor rating, and probably dropped in level for it as well. Very bad precedent set here, very bad. Now, all these bozos in the dugout/coach's box/stands will be hollering for us to get help and reverse our foul calls because they "saw it on TV."

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Not only that, but we would be given a very poor rating, and probably dropped in level for it as well. Very bad precedent set here, very bad. Now, all these bozos in the dugout/coach's box/stands will be hollering for us to get help and reverse our foul calls because they "saw it on TV."

This is very bad joo joo.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by GA Umpire

This is very bad joo joo.

"Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad."

[David B]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Wasn't it just a couple of years ago they put in the "Brinkman Rule", once you kill a ball, by calling it foul it is dead? I understand the pressure MLB guys are under, no matter what you are drawn and quartered on SportsCenter for making a mistake. But so what?

You kill the ball, it's foul. It has to be a dead play. Ugly, ugly call in Cleveland, and if any of us made it on any level, we would be ejecting half of a field we were working on.

You are correct. MLB's umpires are in the spotlight. under a microscope, but they are also in a bubble.

They can get away with just about anything. The players can't afford to all be ejected, they have all kinds of security, sure they might throw out one or two but that's about it.

In our world, we would be running for our lives on a call like this and have to forfeit the game due to all the ejections and so forth.

thanks
David

[Brett]

Originally Posted by David B

They can get away with just about anything. The players can't afford to all be ejected, they have all kinds of security, sure they might throw out one or two but that's about it.

Define "afford" as it pertains to the MLB players. Thanks.

[jicecone]

I am all for getting the call right regardless of some perceived notions of what it may or may not do for your reputation.

In fact, I believe for the rulebook enthusiast, "getting it right" is probably more in line with the rules than maintaining this air of perceived bullcrap that you will be looked at as indecisive, if you change your call.

That to me is more of an EGO and control problem if anything else.

So have at me boys because you have to have balls to umpire and be real good too. Making the right calls when there tough is what your there for. I call that, earning your pay baby.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I am all for getting the call right regardless of some perceived notions of what it may or may not do for your reputation.

In fact, I believe for the rulebook enthusiast, "getting it right" is probably more in line with the rules than maintaining this air of perceived bullcrap that you will be looked at as indecisive, if you change your call.

That to me is more of an EGO and control problem if anything else.

So have at me boys because you have to have balls to umpire and be real good too. Making the right calls when there tough is what your there for. I call that, earning your pay baby.

That's all well and good, but changing a foul ball to a fair ball on a live play is not a good thing. Tengo huevos aqui, pardner!

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I am all for getting the call right regardless of some perceived notions of what it may or may not do for your reputation.

In fact, I believe for the rulebook enthusiast, "getting it right" is probably more in line with the rules than maintaining this air of perceived bullcrap that you will be looked at as indecisive, if you change your call.

That to me is more of an EGO and control problem if anything else.

So have at me boys because you have to have balls to umpire and be real good too. Making the right calls when there tough is what your there for. I call that, earning your pay baby.

Don't get me wrong, yes, the idea is to get the call right. The problem here as I see it is that when you kill the ball by calling it foul, the ball is dead. You know, you put your hands up, and yell "Foul", or "Time", or "Dead Ball" or "Pizza's here", whatever you use.

Sorry, it's a judgment call, and they killed the play. You can't unburn the firewood, which is what they did. If the PU did not see the ball, then he should have let the play burn, then talked it over with his partner if they need to. But overturning the foul call violated a basic tenant of umpiring.

I have the guts to make the right call, no matter what when or where; but I also have the guts to eat a call when I am wrong, and take the heat for it, if I can't change it. Do you?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Don't get me wrong, yes, the idea is to get the call right. The problem here as I see it is that when you kill the ball by calling it foul, the ball is dead. You know, you put your hands up, and yell "Foul", or "Time", or "Dead Ball" or "Pizza's here", whatever you use.

But overturning the foul call violated a basic tenant of umpiring.

I have the guts to make the right call, no matter what when or where; but I also have the guts to eat a call when I am wrong, and take the heat for it, if I can't change it. Do you?

There have been times, yes.

But these guys are held at a much higher level of expectation than we are. Our decisions sometimes only mean the difference between a 1ft. or 2 ft. plastic trophy, big deal. Theirs can help decide the fate and career of the coaches and players. Should that matter in the way an umpire officiates? No but, it does to their bosses and they are the one's that are saying "Get it right."

Believe me, I DO NOT KISS BUTT in my day job but, when the man says my way or the highway, I take him a lot more seriously.

[jkumpire]

Originally Posted by jicecone

There have been times, yes.

But these guys are held at a much higher level of expectation than we are. Our decisions sometimes only mean the difference between a 1ft. or 2 ft. plastic trophy, big deal. Theirs can help decide the fate and career of the coaches and players. Should that matter in the way an umpire officiates? No but, it does to their bosses and they are the one's that are saying "Get it right."

Believe me, I DO NOT KISS BUTT in my day job but, when the man says my way or the highway, I take him a lot more seriously.

Ji,

The level of Baseball I do, and I assume you do, or you would not be on this board as much as you are, is more than just for a plastic trophy. There is a lot riding on the games I do, be it for the players, or my self-esteem and reputation as an umpire.

But we are not MLB guys. However, in this case they by rule did not get the play right. On this play they were wrong twice and they ejected a manager over it. They were wrong in the original call, no big deal, and if Ozzy wants an early shower, he will take it. They were wrong the second time too when they let the play go. Two wrongs still don't make a right in this case.

I can't believe someone is NY is saying this crew did what should have been done in this case.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

Ji,

The level of Baseball I do, and I assume you do, or you would not be on this board as much as you are, is more than just for a plastic trophy. There is a lot riding on the games I do, be it for the players, or my self-esteem and reputation as an umpire.

But we are not MLB guys. However, in this case they by rule did not get the play right. On this play they were wrong twice and they ejected a manager over it. They were wrong in the original call, no big deal, and if Ozzy wants an early shower, he will take it. They were wrong the second time too when they let the play go. Two wrongs still don't make a right in this case.

I can't believe someone is NY is saying this crew did what should have been done in this case.

Truthfully, my original comment about "getting it right" was not about what thay did for this game or not.

However, I have viewed the video several times and (from my seat here at my house, which you know is always easier to umpire from), bottom line was the ball was fair and the runner was out. That is how the call ended up. How they came about arriving at that decision is the discussion here. Yea someone screwed up and a manager, that usually finds a way to get thrown out anyway, got tossed. But bottom line was the correct call was made.

I do take every game I do very serious and so do the participants and coaches but, the truth of the matter is that unless it's D1 ball or above, they are just playing for a trophy. I only had the priviledge of doing 1- D1 game many years ago so I can't count that.

[LMan]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

"Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad."

If we can have the Umpire Hook, why not Hats for Bats?

"Keep bats warm...is VERY good!"