Why not another? 9U play

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

No coach is going to go out and bail out the umpire for blowing a call in their favor. You people really expect a coach, even one who umpires, to ask an umpire to overrule themselves against their own team? Cha, right.

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

Horn blowing time. First of all shame on you Mr Washburn.

During the summer I coach an American Legion team (18-19 yr olds). Last summer while playing our biggest rival (who usually kicks our arses all over the field) I was coaching 3rd base when our batter sent a line drive over my head and landed 8 feet foul down the left field line. As I put up the stop sign for the runner at first I noticed that the PU was signaling the ball fair. When he saw me stopping my runner you could see him gulp. He came into the infield and verbally asked the BU if he saw the ball. Before the Bu could respond I quietly said, "its foul Steve". He then threw up his hands and changed his call.

After the inning the General manager met me in the dug out and asked me, just what in the h@!! are you doing. (he was half kidding) I told him you know what you got when you hired me. He asked me if I would have done the same thing in the tournament and I told him, "lets cross that bridge then". I think he knew then what his answer was.

Integrity, and the teaching of it is a big part of Baseball to me and alot of you (came to that conclusion by reading your posts). Especially at the lower levels coaches and umpires and parents should teach their players this aspect.

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

So integrity means nothing to you?
(oh by the way, yours was a 9 yr old game?)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

For your ridiculous example, pat yourself on the back. It was a terrible coaching decision, though. You cared more about what the umpire was going through than your team. It was completely unfair to your kids. Keep your yap shut in that situation. I am not saying go out and argue that your caught a ball that he didn't. Terrible calls have a way of evening out. There is no way I am going to ask the umpire to rule against my team.

I don't get this at all. The kids know it's foul, the parents know it's foul, the GM knows it's foul. The right thing is to be sportsmanlike and do what he did. Furthermore, it's possible he was the one who blocked the umpire from seeing the ball. Personally, I'm good for about one gross miss a season or two. I don't know how that evens out unless I happen to have you again two seasons from now when I screw up again.

I know this is a sweeping generalization, but in general I *hate* working for coaches who also umpire. Many of them do not really have a grasp of the rules, mechanics, etc. but because they umpire a few games makes them more of an expert than me. I don't really mind too much, but I tend to have a much shorter rope with those guys, especially if they announce that they umpire before the game starts (like I care).

[umpduck11]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Shame on me? How about shame on the kid who is old enough to vote that took a pretty good paying job and did NOTHING to prepare himself for that job? How about SHAME on him for making up a rule? Shame on me? Nope, not on this one.

If that same kid prepared your Big Mac without special sauce, would you say shame on him ? Or would you instead blame the manager who hired him, and put him on the clock without prior proper training ??? I'm sure when you first started umpiring, you knew all there was to know. Obviously, the kid has some learning to do, but you don't seem interested in helping him learn, just pointing out his short-comings. Did NOTHING to prepare himself for the job ? NOTHING ? I guess you know this kid pretty well to have knowledge of that. There are lots of people who insist that the hands are part of the bat. Are they making up a rule ? No, they are parroting what they've been told numerous times, and have come to believe it. Maybe that's what happened in this case. Maybe someone told the kid that that was the rule, and he's held on to it in his head. I hope for his sake he doesn't have anymore of your games.
He deserves better treatment.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpduck11

If that same kid prepared your Big Mac without special sauce, would you say shame on him ? Or would you instead blame the manager who hired him, and put him on the clock without prior proper training ??? I'm sure when you first started umpiring, you knew all there was to know. Obviously, the kid has some learning to do, but you don't seem interested in helping him learn, just pointing out his short-comings. Did NOTHING to prepare himself for the job ? NOTHING ? I guess you know this kid pretty well to have knowledge of that. There are lots of people who insist that the hands are part of the bat. Are they making up a rule ? No, they are parroting what they've been told numerous times, and have come to believe it. Maybe that's what happened in this case. Maybe someone told the kid that that was the rule, and he's held on to it in his head. I hope for his sake he doesn't have anymore of your games. He deserves better treatment.

NOTHING? yes, I think that is a little rough. He DID have an I-Phone and expensive looking sunglasses with red trim. And, he mostly tucked in some of the shirt that they gave him. So, yes! He did spend some time preparing.

I knew that there would be some comments on here disagreeing with my flippant remark. Like I said before, it would have been best for me not to have said it.

I was not prepared for the number of lunkheads who were going to try to convince me that a coach should help the umpire make calls and understand rules. And, that a coach should get his runner called out because the umpire does not know the rules.

It is the coach's job to help an umpire learn his job? That is such a load of Horse Hockey.

The coach has ZERO responsibility to help the umpire make calls or understand rules.

It is remarkable how many people believe that I should have been helping Cell Phone McGhee do his job. Those are some of the most moronic posts I have ever read.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

It is the coach's job to help an umpire learn his job? That is such a load of Horse Hockey.

The coach has ZERO responsibility to help the umpire make calls or understand rules.

What part of 9U don't you understand? It's a learning experience for everyone involved - including managers. What I find most reprehensible about the above comment is that it comes from another umpire who thinks it's fine and dandy to take advantage of someone just starting out.

When it's you against the world, bet on the world.

[umpjong]

Originally Posted by waltjp

What part of 9U don't you understand? It's a learning experience for everyone involved - including managers.

BINGO!!!!! This is the absolute bottom line for me in the original situation. Had this been a game played at an older age group, the young umpire hopefully would have had the experience/knowledge to know the rule involved.


I also am of the opinion that umpires, coaches and parents/spectators are absolutely not necessary for the game to be played by young uns. My fondest memories of playing this grand old game was on the sand lot with my 10 to 20 buddies (who ever showed up) and playing all day without adult supervision. (Learned most of my adult words there though) Disagreements on the field were settled by the old free for all......

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by umpjong

BINGO!!!!! This is the absolute bottom line for me in the original situation. Had this been a game played at an older age group, the young umpire hopefully would have had the experience/knowledge to know the rule involved.

My point is that he was not just inexperienced. He was a lazy, sleazy, cheese eating rat.

It is so ridiculous how much crap a coach gets for one little sarcastic remark.

But, over the course of the weekend, Cell Phone McGhee took HUNDREDS of dollars for a job that he did not try to do well.

And again, he was not a kid, he was an adult.

But, yeah yeah....I should have interrupted his phone calls and mentored him. I should have helped him know the rules...

What responsibility does an ADULT have when taking a job? Any?

The umpire is just a nice young man trying to learn the game...give me a break. Some of the umpires here are so full of themselves it is nauseating.

I used to think a "rat" meant a badly behaving, obnoxious coach. I now see the real definition in many of the heads here. A rat is someone that does see his #1 job to make lousy umpires look good. If he does not teach the umpires how to umpire, he is a rat. If an umpire calls his runner safe and he does not get that runner out, he is a rat. What a load of crap.

Joe

[DonInKansas]

Originally Posted by umpjong

I also am of the opinion that umpires, coaches and parents/spectators are absolutely not necessary for the game to be played by young uns. My fondest memories of playing this grand old game was on the sand lot with my 10 to 20 buddies (who ever showed up) and playing all day without adult supervision. (Learned most of my adult words there though) Disagreements on the field were settled by the old free for all......

And these days ARE a memory, at least out where I live. I can't remember the last time I saw an unsupervised game on a ballfield. Seeing an empty ballfield on a clear spring/summer day used to be blasphemy. Now it's the status quo.

[LDUB]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I was not prepared for the number of lunkheads who were going to try to convince me that a coach should help the umpire make calls and understand rules. And, that a coach should get his runner called out because the umpire does not know the rules.

There is a difference between helping someone learn the rules and intentionally lying to them in an attempt to gain an advantage for one's team. You knew that he could have called the runner out after the play but you told him that he was not allowed to do so. You lied to him about a rule. It would be no different if your team was on defense and the batter was hit by the pitch in the hand and you went out and told the umpre that the batter doesn't get first base because the hands are part of the bat. You know that isn't the truth but you go out there and lie to him to gain an advantage.