Balk?

[jwwashburn]

I had a friend from Michigan call me up about this one.

OBR

Runner on 1st-Pitcher leaned in and took signs while straddling the rubber. He then engaged, stretched, set and pitched. I do not think I have ever seen that. He did not balk him but wondered if he should have balked him.

8.01 Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.
Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher’s plate.
Rule 8.01 Comment: Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.
Pitchers will not be allowed to disengage the rubber after taking each sign.

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—
(g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not touching the pitcher’s plate;

If he is doing something goofy to deceive the runners, don't we have the responsibility to balk him? Also, he was a lefty and they should not be allowed to pitch, anyway.

Joe in Missouri

[Forest Ump]

No Balk. At the most, it's a don't do that and that's only after a complaint from the offense. Don't look for trouble, it will find you.

[JR12]

Agreed. No penalty listed in OBR.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Forest Ump

No Balk. At the most, it's a don't do that and that's only after a complaint from the offense. Don't look for trouble, it will find you.

Why is it "a don't do that again" scenario? If the pitcher did nothing illegal, I do not care who much the howler monkey from the offensive team screams, I am not going to say anything unless F1 quick pitches and then I am going to balk him.

MTD, Sr.

[JR12]

Because we are paid to enforce the rules. While it is not something we look for or even care about (as long as he isn't trying to quick pitch) if it's brought to my attention I would tell him to take his sign while on the rubber.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JR12

Because we are paid to enforce the rules. While it is not something we look for or even care about (as long as he isn't trying to quick pitch) if it's brought to my attention I would tell him to take his sign while on the rubber.

F1 has done nothing illegal when takes a sign while straddling the rubber and then engages the pitchign plate and takes or simulates taking a sign. By taking or simulating taking a sign while in contact with the pitchign plate, F1 has met the requirements of the rules. There is nothing in the rules that prohibites F1 from taking a sign while not in contact with the pitching plate. But it is illegal not to take or simulate taking a sign while in contact with the pitching plate and then pitching the ball; that is a quick pitch.'

MTD, Sr.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

F1 has done nothing illegal when takes a sign while straddling the rubber and then engages the pitchign plate and takes or simulates taking a sign. By taking or simulating taking a sign while in contact with the pitchign plate, F1 has met the requirements of the rules. There is nothing in the rules that prohibites F1 from taking a sign while not in contact with the pitching plate. But it is illegal not to take or simulate taking a sign while in contact with the pitching plate and then pitching the ball; that is a quick pitch.'

MTD, Sr.

IMHO there is more to this requirement than the part about quick pitching. By leaning in and taking the sign, he is indicating to the runner that he is engaged. The runner, therefore, assumes that there must be a disengagement or step before there can be a pickoff throw. If the pitcher makes a snap throw without the disengagement or step, he has gained an advantage.

I am in MByron's camp on this one. Warn, then warn again, then warn again. I do not think it would ever get to an ejection.

[mikebran]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

F1 has done nothing illegal when takes a sign while straddling the rubber

.

Wow. I'm standing on my head, listening to Abby Road backwards and the OFFICIAL RULES OF BASEBALL STILL SAY

..shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher plate

PLEASE INVITE ME TO THIS GAME...


Pitcher is clearly straddling rubber, leaning in and taking signs.

Base coach: Hey Mr. Official, doesn't he need to be in contact with the rubber to take signs.

Official: He's not doing anything illegal, so go pound sand

Base coach: muttering.. I swear I read that once, oh well, the umpire is always right!

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Why is it "a don't do that again" scenario? If the pitcher did nothing illegal, I do not care who much the howler monkey from the offensive team screams, I am not going to say anything unless F1 quick pitches and then I am going to balk him.

MTD, Sr.

Mark, the pitcher violated the provision that he shall take his signs from the rubber.

The issue is not that he did nothing illegal; it's that what he did carries no penalty. A violation that carries no specific penalty is still a violation. Compare the rule requiring all infielders to be in fair territory. No penalty for a violation of that provision either (and enforcement is similar).

Therefore, proper procedure is "don't do that," or in more official parlance, warn and then eject.

Depending on the level, I might ignore this; or I might address it with the coach between innings; or I might warn and then eject.