I saw it out of the corener of my eye.

[jwwashburn]

There are at least four more likely explanations as to the disagreement than the umpire lying to you. In no particular order:

1. He had the rule wrong.

No, he knew the rule. You cannot leave until the pitcher releases.

2. You had the rule wrong.

Nope.

3. He had the timing of the runner's jump wrong.

Since you cannot see the runner and the pitcher's hand from behind the plate there is no way for him to have the timing at all.

4. You had the timing of the runner's jump wrong.

My runner actually did not get a very good jump at all. There is no way in the world he left early. It was not even close.

The thing that scares me about your recent run-ins with umpires is that you are quick to assume some sort of malice on their part, as if there is an underhanded reason that they don't call what you think they should be calling.

Gee whilikers, I am so sorry to have scared you. I assumed no malice on the behalf of the this knucklehead. He made the call because the opposing coach intimidated him. He had no malice, he had to lie to me because he made a call for which he had no explanation.

[kylejt]

All I can tell you is that I clearly saw two runners leave before the ball reached the batter last week(LL rules). For me, they were easy calls to make, and didn't effect my ability to call balls and strikes.

I don't know what happened at your game, I wasn't there. But trust me, I can make that call.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by kylejt

All I can tell you is that I clearly saw two runners leave before the ball reached the batter last week(LL rules). For me, they were easy calls to make, and didn't effect my ability to call balls and strikes.

I don't know what happened at your game, I wasn't there. But trust me, I can make that call.

Your example is even worse. You are watching something other than the ball while the pitch is on the way to the plate.

How in the world does this not mess with your balls and strikes? Do you dust off the plate while a pitch is on the way, as well. There is not any sort of umpire training that I have ever heard of that would have the Home Plate Umpire looking at something like this. You are calling the pitches, you need to follow the ball.

Joe in Missouri

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Your example is even worse. You are watching something other than the ball while the pitch is on the way to the plate.

How in the world does this not mess with your balls and strikes? Do you dust off the plate while a pitch is on the way, as well. There is not any sort of umpire training that I have ever heard of that would have the Home Plate Umpire looking at something like this. You are calling the pitches, you need to follow the ball.

Joe in Missouri

When you're working the plate in a gmae involving older kids, do you not know when R1 (or R2 or R3) is stealing, while the ball is still on the way to the plate? Wouldn't this be the same type of call?

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When you're working the plate in a gmae involving older kids, do you not know when R1 (or R2 or R3) is stealing, while the ball is still on the way to the plate? Wouldn't this be the same type of call?

That's the point I was trying to make. I agree totally. You have to watch R3for a squeeze, you have to watch R2 for obstruction ....

Maybe i've just done this too long, but you can't have tunnel vision and be a good umpire. Now a newbie I can understand, but if you're not watching the game, you're going to miss something sooner or later.

Thansk
David

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

When you're working the plate in a gmae involving older kids, do you not know when R1 (or R2 or R3) is stealing, while the ball is still on the way to the plate? Wouldn't this be the same type of call?

Sure, I know if a runner is stealing. But, I would have no way of knowing if he left the base before the pitcher released. It is physically impossible to see the pitcher's hand and the runner's foot at 1B at the same time and the PU that is trying to do it would will miss a lot of pitches.

Serious softball umpires would be busting a gut at this discussion. The rule for this is the same. They would never dream of trying to call a runner leaving early from behind the plate-ESPECIALLY one at first.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Sure, I know if a runner is stealing. But, I would have no way of knowing if he left the base before the pitcher released.

All (or most) of us have agreed that the benefit of the doubt goes to the runner. But if the runner moves enough to have taken 2 steps, it's pretty clear that he wasn't on the base at the time he was required to still be on the base.

And, frankly, if I think a team is trying to "cheat" the system, I'm more likley to look more closely at a play or two, and give up soemthing on the pitch.

[jwwashburn]

Bob,

There was a Base Umpire. As the PU, even if a runner left so early that I would have somehow seen it while doing my job I am still not going to call it. Like I said before, I have done many hundreds of FP Softball games and never have I called a runner for leaving early from the PU position and if I had, I might have gotten punched in the nose by my partner. It is almost never that a runner leaves way early. it is a very close call nearly every time. That is another reason that there is no chance that the PU can call it.

If the PU wants to make everyone know that he thinks his partner sucks, he will call a runner leaving too early. Does he wants to make sure everyone knows he sucks, also? Then, like in the OP, he will call it only after the Defensive Coach grouses and be dead wrong about it.

Joe

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

All (or most) of us have agreed that the benefit of the doubt goes to the runner. But if the runner moves enough to have taken 2 steps, it's pretty clear that he wasn't on the base at the time he was required to still be on the base.

And, frankly, if I think a team is trying to "cheat" the system, I'm more likley to look more closely at a play or two, and give up soemthing on the pitch.

Thanks Bob for a very clear post. That's exactly the philosophy that I've seen used and it works very well for me also.

Thanks
David