FPSR Violation??

[Spence]

Check out this link:

Picasa Web Albums - BOB - CHS vs Beechwood

Go to the last 3 pics of the 3rd row of pics.

FPSR violation??

Can someone list the rule wording.

Thanks

[Ump Rube]

Originally Posted by Spence

FPSR violation??

Ok, so maybe it is just a brain fart or I have just not been able to get a hold of the acronyms on this site (OOO took me awhile), but I will stick my neck out and ask... what is FPSR?

[Spence]

Originally Posted by Ump Rube

Ok, so maybe it is just a brain fart or I have just not been able to get a hold of the acronyms on this site (OOO took me awhile), but I will stick my neck out and ask... what is FPSR?

My apologies.

Force Play Slide Rule

By the way, I should add that the BR was safe at first.

[johnnyg08]

shouldn't matter safe or out at 1B in some situations

[johnnyg08]

what rule set are they playing under?

[UmpJM]

Spence,

If I'm the umpire, that is absolutely an FPSR violation.

JM

[Spence]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Spence,

If I'm the umpire, that is absolutely an FPSR violation.

JM

I thought so as well but he seemed to hesitate and then decided to not call it. No impact on the outcome of the game though.

[MajorDave]

A FED safety related rule that exists in some form or fashion in all rule sets played by amateurs.

I say YES! FPSR violation-no doubt whatsoever. But, if the DP was obtained without calling it then by all means wait and call it only when necessary. If you think the contact was malicious then eject.

I called this once this year and did not wait to see if they got the back end of the DP at first. In these pics it looks to me like R1 had no intent to do anything but break up the DP. Did he?

I worked about 20 miles away from this field on a HS field in neighboring Covington. That turf looks exactly like University of Louisville's turf. No dirt except the mound. Sure helps prevent rainouts.

This game was an upset win by Beechwood (the team in Red). I have worked them a couple of times in the past. The Beechwood head coach has a long white Santa Claus style beard so in those red uniforms he looks like Santa coaching baseball. He is a fierce competitor who gives umpires hell. I had to restrict him to the dugout once. His team was winning and he was still arguing everything. I probably would have had to dump him if they were losing.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

A FED safety related rule that exists in some form or fashion in all rule sets played by amateurs.

I say YES! FPSR violation-no doubt whatsoever. But, if the DP was obtained without calling it then by all means wait and call it only when necessary.

I disagree with this. Call it when you see it. If you call it, other runners return to TOP; if you don't call it, they likely advance.

If you call it, it (likely) won't happen again (in that game). If you don't call it, it (likely) will, and then you'll have another decision to make, and / or an explanation to give.

[DG]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

A FED safety related rule that exists in some form or fashion in all rule sets played by amateurs.

I say YES! FPSR violation-no doubt whatsoever. But, if the DP was obtained without calling it then by all means wait and call it only when necessary. If you think the contact was malicious then eject.

So you will wait to see, and if they turn the double play with no one out you will allow the runner on 3B to score?

NCAA also has FPSR, and some amateur rules do not.

[MajorDave]

I have never seen or called a FPSR violation from the plate area. I have responsibilities at the plate area and at third. The only time I can see it or call it is with R1 when I am coming out far enough to see it and call it.

I had one this season in a FED game (How do you spell safety? Can you say NFHS? Sure, I knew you could.)where I called it immediately when I saw it. I got to about C position from the plate when the slide occured past the bag dumping the F6. I saw it and did not wait until the DP was over. IF both runners are out I don't have to make a big deal calling the automatic DP like I did. My call resulted in a big S**thouse which resulted in a longer than I liked discussion and explanation to the head coach for the offense then an argument and ultimately a dump of the assistant coach.

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant. They were getting killed and looking for a scapegoat. I personally think the ASSistant put on a show to try to get their players fired up but it still detracted from the game and wasted time and got the ignorant inbred fans fired up which resulted in some more warnings and restrictions.

I am not afraid to make a call, especially that call, but I think I learned a little bit about managment of situations in that instance. I should have waited then told the coach of the offending player that I saw it, pointed it and would have called it if I had to. They made a mountain out of a mole hill for a differing purpose and I fell into the trap. It was the first time that team had been run-ruled in about five years (A very good high school program that ultimately went to the regional semi-finals this year).

As to some amateur leagues that do not use FPSR I assume you mean that BS adult baseball crap where full grown men still try to be boys and jeopardize their personal health and family's financial well being trying to continue to live the dream. We don't have that around here and I would not work it under any circumstance. I am not that hard up for games or money. From the stories I hear those games often become a travesty and a testament to bad sportsmanship. If I worked them I would have to dump almost everyone and then I wouldn't get asked back anyway.

Sorry so long but you struck a nerve and I guess you might have meant to. If not I apologize and if so, good job. I'm sure you are proud and smug about it.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant.

Then you would have to dump an opposing runner the next inning, as he commits malicious contact in revenge, since you apparently didn't think the original play was illegal.

You have to call it when you see it. Without that, it becomes way too much of a free-for-all, and you will have some explaining to do when you call it on the opposing team's identical play.

So you got caught up in a storm of someone else's creation. So what? It happens.

[DG]

Originally Posted by MajorDave

I have never seen or called a FPSR violation from the plate area. I have responsibilities at the plate area and at third. The only time I can see it or call it is with R1 when I am coming out far enough to see it and call it.

I had one this season in a FED game (How do you spell safety? Can you say NFHS? Sure, I knew you could.)where I called it immediately when I saw it. I got to about C position from the plate when the slide occured past the bag dumping the F6. I saw it and did not wait until the DP was over. IF both runners are out I don't have to make a big deal calling the automatic DP like I did. My call resulted in a big S**thouse which resulted in a longer than I liked discussion and explanation to the head coach for the offense then an argument and ultimately a dump of the assistant coach.

If I had waited, the DP happened anyway and I could have just spoken to the offensive head coach on the way back to the dugout and probably avoided dumping his assistant. They were getting killed and looking for a scapegoat. I personally think the ASSistant put on a show to try to get their players fired up but it still detracted from the game and wasted time and got the ignorant inbred fans fired up which resulted in some more warnings and restrictions.

I am not afraid to make a call, especially that call, but I think I learned a little bit about managment of situations in that instance. I should have waited then told the coach of the offending player that I saw it, pointed it and would have called it if I had to. They made a mountain out of a mole hill for a differing purpose and I fell into the trap. It was the first time that team had been run-ruled in about five years (A very good high school program that ultimately went to the regional semi-finals this year).

As to some amateur leagues that do not use FPSR I assume you mean that BS adult baseball crap where full grown men still try to be boys and jeopardize their personal health and family's financial well being trying to continue to live the dream. We don't have that around here and I would not work it under any circumstance. I am not that hard up for games or money. From the stories I hear those games often become a travesty and a testament to bad sportsmanship. If I worked them I would have to dump almost everyone and then I wouldn't get asked back anyway.

Sorry so long but you struck a nerve and I guess you might have meant to. If not I apologize and if so, good job. I'm sure you are proud and smug about it.

I have seen and called FPSR from the plate, but only when there is an R2 or R3. With R1 only it is my responsibility to watch for this and be out from behind the plate to do it.

My point, which you missed, is that you call it when you see it, not wait to see what happens. If you allow a double play to happen a run could score while you wait to see something that is irrelevant.

You seem to prefer waiting to make the legitimate call, which is wrong, and my point, to having coaches come out and argue.

Adult baseball is not youth baseball. There are youth leagues that don't have FPSR.

My intent was not to strike a nerve, but to get you think about the consequences of not calling it when you see it (run scores because you allowed a DP to happen, sh*house happens because you didn't, etc).

Your game management skills are not complete until you call FPSR when you see it, and deal with the sh*thouse that might ensue. If you understand this after this discussion then I am proud, if not I don't really care.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Spence

Check out this link:

Picasa Web Albums - BOB - CHS vs Beechwood

Go to the last 3 pics of the 3rd row of pics.

FPSR violation??

Can someone list the rule wording.

Thanks

It is, and it obviously wasn't called.

[jdmara]

Originally Posted by Spence

Check out this link:

Picasa Web Albums - BOB - CHS vs Beechwood

Go to the last 3 pics of the 3rd row of pics.

FPSR violation??

Can someone list the rule wording.

Thanks

I'll assume you're talking about pics 22-24...It looks to me like the runner is in violation of the FPSR.

8-4-2

"ART. 2 . . . Any runner is out when he:

2. When a play is being made on a runner or batter-runner, he establishes
his baseline as directly between his position and the base toward
which he is moving.
b. does not legally slide and causes illegal contact and/or illegally alters the
actions of a fielder in the immediate act of making a play, or on a force play,
does not slide in a direct line between the bases; or
1. A runner may slide in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making
contact or altering the play of the fielder.
2. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the
slide must be legal. (2-32-1, 2) Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all
legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the
ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal."

-Josh