How can I prove this?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Let me sum this up...

The rules and case plays clearly state that the coach's desire to substitute the "player being batted for" for the DH is perfectly legal.

No argument here.

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

This would, in fact, terminate the role of the DH for that team. But, not the player who was fulfilling that role. As a starter, he has left the game once, and has one re-entry remaining.

This is where the problem lies. The old DH may return to the ballgame and occupy the same place in the line-up as the new DH. But the role of the old DH role has been terminated in the OP.

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

The player being batted for is also a starter and has not yet left the game.

This guy became the player {already in the game defensively} now in the offensive line-up in place of the terminated DH. If the DH is to return to that spot, wait the DH is terminated. That is now impossible. If the player who was DH returns to his spot in the lineup, the replacement DH must leave the game. Otherwise, FED rules now allow the terminated DH role to become reprised. Huh?

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Everyone but SAUmp agrees with this.
If that doesn't prove it, I don't know what does.
JM

I'm just asking someone to eliminate some of the the pronouns and state exactly how the termination of the DH role was later reprised by exactly the same two starting players?

[Matt]

There is no more DH after the first switch. When the original DH comes back in, it's not as a DH. There is no requirement that a player returns in the same role, just in the same spot in the order. Defensive positions are irrelevant to that spot in the order--F1 could be removed, and another fielder taking his place as F1, yet the substitute will always bat in the old F1's spot in the order, as he was the player removed, even though he is not playing the same defensive position.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by SAump

I get lost there.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. Davis DH for James
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4
10. James 1

Davis reaches base and James PR for him, lineup card now looks like this, James must bat in the 4 spot as he is running for his DH who batted there. Notice only 9 players as DH has been eliminated for remainder of game. Davis is a starter that has now left for the first time and James who he was batting for is still in the game as the starting pitcher.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. James 1 (PR for DH Davis)
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

Davis now reenters for the first time but now must play defense too and still has to bat in the 4 spot. He replaces James in the lineup and is inserted as the first basemen and Able moves to pitch. James has now left for the first time from his position as a starting pitcher and retains reentry rights.

1. Able 1
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. Davis 3
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

James now reenters, as pitcher moving Able back to first, and must do so for Davis in the 4 spot. Davis is now done for the day as he has exited a second time.

1. Able 3
2. Bruce 6
3. Charles 7
4. James 1
5. Eugene 8
6. Frank 2
7. George 5
8. Henry 9
9. Iban 4

Does this help anyone understand that wasn't to clear?

[SAump]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

[/LIST]Davis reaches base and James PR for him, lineup card now looks like this, James must bat in the 4 spot as he is running for his DH who batted there. Notice only 9 players as DH has been eliminated for remainder of game. Davis is a starter that has now left for the first time and James who he was batting for is still in the game as the starting pitcher. Davis now reenters for the first time but now must play defense too and still has to bat in the 4 spot. He replaces James in the lineup and is inserted as the first basemen and Able moves to pitch. James has now left for the first time from his position as a starting pitcher and retains reentry rights.
[/LIST]James now reenters, as pitcher moving Able back to first, and must do so for Davis in the 4 spot. Davis is now done for the day as he has exited a second time. Does this help anyone understand that wasn't to clear?
[/FONT]

Ah. Can't argue that. Thanks.
Dumb me was looking at them back in the game at the same time.
Your explanation shows how it is possible to meet both criteria.

[johnnyg08]

so basically if he re-enters in the same spot in the lineup, for who was the previous DH, he can do that...but they can't re-enter him in a different spot in the lineup?

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

so basically if he re-enters in the same spot in the lineup, for who was the previous DH, he can do that...but they can't re-enter him in a different spot in the lineup?

By DHing for James, Davis and James are locked into the 4th spot in the batting order for that particular game.

[johnnyg08]

okay, that makes sense...so in a sense, they're still locked into each other because they were connected to the DH

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

okay, that makes sense...so in a sense, they're still locked into each other because they were connected to the DH

I wouldn't use that logic, becasue it doesn't apply to OBR anbd NCAA.

I'd just use the FED rule that the DH and the DEFO can't both be in the game at the same time, and must bat in that particualr spot in the order.

[johnnyg08]

Okay, thanks Bob.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I wouldn't use that logic, becasue it doesn't apply to OBR anbd NCAA.

What is different in OBR and NCAA? Other than reentry of course.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

What is different in OBR and NCAA? Other than reentry of course.

The DEFO can enter in the batting order in a spot other than that occupied by the DH. Both the DEFO and the DH can be on offense (or defense) at the same time.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The DEFO can enter in the batting order in a spot other than that occupied by the DH. Both the DEFO and the DH can be on offense (or defense) at the same time.

Not saying you are wrong, but that doesn't make sense to me. If you are the DH for someone how can the person they are DHing for bat? Isn't the DH tied to another player?

[johnnyg08]

you can have a pitcher/dh be the same person in NCAA...so when the pitcher is done, he can enter the game as the DH when he's done pitching. fun huh?

[DG]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Not saying you are wrong, but that doesn't make sense to me. If you are the DH for someone how can the person they are DHing for bat? Isn't the DH tied to another player?

A pitcher, in OBR, never had a batting order slot, so if the DH takes a defensive position and pitcher stays in the game then the pitcher takes the batting slot of the defensive player removed. Thus both pitcher and DH are in the game at same time, but DH position is terminated.

In NCAA the pitcher can be designated at P/DH and can stay in the game as DH for the new pitcher if he leaves the pitcher position.

In FED, DH and the player he is DH for are locked into a batting order slot.

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by DG

A pitcher, in OBR, never had a batting order slot, so if the DH takes a defensive position and pitcher stays in the game then the pitcher takes the batting slot of the defensive player removed. Thus both pitcher and DH are in the game at same time, but DH position is terminated.

In NCAA the pitcher can be designated at P/DH and can stay in the game as DH for the new pitcher if he leaves the pitcher position.

In FED, DH and the player he is DH for are locked into a batting order slot.

OK, I think I get it now. Wow, that sounds like the NCAA version can be pretty confusing.