out or safe cant find in book

[dig-z]

pitch is hit stop is made throw to 1st is dropped fielder pulls foot from base,he does mannage to regain possesion of ball, but its is in his throwing hand reaches and tags 1st with glove... out? or safe?

[w_sohl]

Out on a force.?.?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by dig-z

pitch is hit stop is made throw to 1st is dropped fielder pulls foot from base,he does mannage to regain possesion of ball, but its is in his throwing hand reaches and tags 1st with glove... out? or safe?

Out. If he had touched the base with his foot on a force play, would his foot have been holding the ball? So what difference does it make which hand the ball is in? Answer: It doesn't.

[dig-z]

Originally Posted by w_sohl

Out on a force.?.?

one guys reply was safe glove is considered equipment, and when foot pulled from bag eliminated force...i never even reconsidered! OUT!!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by dig-z

one guys reply was safe glove is considered equipment, and when foot pulled from bag eliminated force...i never even reconsidered! OUT!!

Rule 6.05 (j) After a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.

(Notice no mention of which hand the ball is in.)

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dig-z

one guys reply was safe glove is considered equipment, and when foot pulled from bag eliminated force...i never even reconsidered! OUT!!

Ask the "guy" if F3 secures the ball and pulls his foot but reestablishes it while the runner is 5' away, does this "eliminate the force", too?

Of course, there is no "force" on the batter-runner to 1st base and it doesn't matter what part of the body F3 tags the base with, as long as he has secure possession of the ball.

My God! Some people will just make up rules to justify their fantasies!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dig-z

pitch is hit stop is made throw to 1st is dropped fielder pulls foot from base,he does mannage to regain possesion of ball, but its is in his throwing hand reaches and tags 1st with glove... out? or safe?

In OBR, read 2-Tag. Note the different requirements for tagging a runner and tagging a base.

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

In OBR, read 2-Tag. Note the different requirements for tagging a runner and tagging a base.

That's a distinction I have made once in my career. 18u travel ball. One team was unbelievably good and the other was not. The good team was up by about twenty early in the game and was showing up the other team at every opportunity. There was nothing that crossed the line and warranted ejection, but it was a poor display of sportsmanship.

The bad team finally got a runner on first with two outs. The next batter hit a ground ball to the shortstop. He literally prissed (skipping with his hands at shoulder level and limp wrists) to the base, bent at the waist, and touched the bag with the ball. I called the runner safe. I would love to say they got the message and the game ended with no further incidents, but I cannot remember how it went after that. I do know there were no ejections.

Now as a practical ruling, if a kid is not trying to show up his opponent, I am going to have an out every time. I am sure the tip of his pinkie grazed the bag when he touched it with the ball.

[JJ]

[QUOTE=Blue37;598551]He literally prissed (skipping with his hands at shoulder level and limp wrists) to the base, bent at the waist, and touched the bag with the ball. I called the runner safe. I would love to say they got the message and the game ended with no further incidents, but I cannot remember how it went after that. I do know there were no ejections.
QUOTE]

Let's see...."there were no ejections"...that kid that danced to first base should have been an immediate ejection. And...."I called the runner safe"...so YOU decided to change the rules of safe-out to "send a message". Shame, shame.....
Dump the dufus and if folks don't get the "message", TCB as needed. But don't compromise your integrity (and mine and every other umpire) by changing rules to "send messages".

JJ

[bossman72]

2.00 TAG
2.00 PERSON (body)

[johnnyg08]

think about where the ball is on a routine play to 1B...F3 catches it with his glove and his foot is on 1B...he does not catch the ball with his shoe. ball in hand, touches base with glove (with hand in glove) and that action beats the runner to the base...out.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JJ

so YOU decided to change the rules of safe-out to "send a message". Shame, shame.....

Before you scold him, you consider that strictly speaking he's right: a fielder touching the base with the ball alone does NOT constitute a tag.

Originally Posted by Rule 2.00

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the
ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his
hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or
glove.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by bossman72

2.00 TAG
2.00 PERSON (body)

So, tagging the base with the ball is an out. The ball is referred to as equipment in the OBR and he tagged the base with the ball. Now, Blue37, you have changed the rules to fit a situation. Please, don't do that anymore. Call the out and send F3 home for unsportsmanlike conduct if you want. But, call the out if it is made.

[GA Umpire]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Before you scold him, you consider that strictly speaking he's right: a fielder touching the base with the ball alone does NOT constitute a tag.

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove.

The PERSON of a player or an umpire is any part of his body, his clothing or his equipment.

1.17 Playing equipment including but not limited to the bases, pitcher’s plate, baseball, bats, uniforms, catcher’s mitts, first baseman’s gloves, infielders and outfielders gloves and protective helmets, as detailed in the provisions of this rule, shall not contain any undue commercialization of the product. Designations by the manufacturer on any such equipment must be in good taste as to the size and content of the manufacturer’s logo or the brand name of the item. The provisions of this Section 1.17 shall apply to professional leagues only.

As long as he is doing it with the obvious intent to secure an out and it is not accidental, it is an out. Even if the only thing touching the base is the baseball. The glove is not his body; it is considered to be equipment. So, now, he cannot touch the base with his glove? Yes he can and so he can touch the base with only the baseball, and it is still an out.

[HokieUmp]

Originally Posted by JJ

Let's see...."there were no ejections"...that kid that danced to first base should have been an immediate ejection. And...."I called the runner safe"...so YOU decided to change the rules of safe-out to "send a message". Shame, shame.....
Dump the dufus and if folks don't get the "message", TCB as needed. But don't compromise your integrity (and mine and every other umpire) by changing rules to "send messages".

I know that you're trying to rip Blue37, not me, but I have a question: you're ripping him for "changing the rules," but I'd suggest your solution is basically the same thing.

I might need to go back and re-read my rulebooks, but can you tell me where exactly in the rulebook you'd find the "Dump the Dufus for showing up his opponent" rule? And not only the rule, but the rule code as well?

If, in fact, there really isn't such a thing - aside from a 9.01(c) type clause - then how is your proposal any less of an integrity compromise?

I'm asking this as a serious question, not a veiled attempt to rip with sarcasm.