Let's have a thread about strike zones!

[cc6]

I think whether you use the catcher or not to help call the game depends on the quality of the pitching. If a pitcher is throwing low 70's, you probably won't need to read the catcher's body language to determine if the pitch is a strike. But if it is mid 80's or higher, there is less time to watch the pitch as it crosses the plate. Also, movement comes into play- easier to call a straight fastball than one with a tail on it. I find it is especially important to use the catcher to help call pitches that are low or outside. If the catcher catches a low one with the palm up, it had better be obvious that the pitch was high enough. As for calling a pitch outside of the strikezone a strike because of how the catcher caught it, I'm not in the habit of doing this. Not the batter's job to know how the catcher is going to recieve the pitch.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

As for calling a pitch outside of the strikezone a strike because of how the catcher caught it, I'm not in the habit of doing this. Not the batter's job to know how the catcher is going to recieve the pitch.

A batter is crowding the plate. The ball is two widths outside. His "sweet spot" easily reaches 2 feet past that pitch. Everyone wants you to call it a strike, the OC the DC, and just about everyone on both teams and in the stands. They give you permission. The most famous coach in SEC history tells you before the season to call strikes. That or you can use that $3 strike zone cartoon and the black and white letter of the law. You pay $3000 to hear Mr. Evans' associates tell you it is your call to call that pitch the way you see it. "What ya gat?" Ball.

[Kevin Finnerty]

A strike is a strike. And if it's a strike, I call it a strike.

I find it hard to be entrusted with being an official and then go out and penalize one participant and reward his opponent, because I want to leave the contest sooner. I don't drink, I don't smoke and after 20 years of marriage, I'm in no great hurry to get home. So all I have going when I'm doing a game is the game. I guess the way I go about it requires me to stay a little longer sometimes, but I never have to wonder if I was being fair or not.

[cardinalfan]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

A strike is a strike. And if it's a strike, I call it a strike.

I find it hard to be entrusted with being an official and then go out and penalize one participant and reward his opponent, because I want to leave the contest sooner. I don't drink, I don't smoke and after 20 years of marriage, I'm in no great hurry to get home. So all I have going when I'm doing a game is the game. I guess the way I go about it requires me to stay a little longer sometimes, but I never have to wonder if I was being fair or not.

Nice!

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

A strike is a strike. And if it's a strike, I call it a strike..

NBA referee, "And if it's a foul, I call it a foul."
"And if it's a traveling violation, I call that too."
Explain that position to them.

As others have said, it depends on the league. Coaches never ask about strikes. Try to explain two inches outside to them. Keeping a batter alive after strike two and extending early innings are not good game management skill sets. It is the only reason an extended strike three exists. Most times it is better to let the pitchers duel it out. The catcher knows fairness is never a part of the equation. But do whatever feels best, good luck and good eyesight.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SAump

A batter is crowding the plate. The ball is two widths outside. His "sweet spot" easily reaches 2 feet past that pitch. Everyone wants you to call it a strike, the OC the DC, and just about everyone on both teams and in the stands. They give you permission. The most famous coach in SEC history tells you before the season to call strikes. That or you can use that $3 strike zone cartoon and the black and white letter of the law. You pay $3000 to hear Mr. Evans' associates tell you it is your call to call that pitch the way you see it. "What ya gat?" Ball.

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black. There is no way I'm going to call 2 balls off the plate a strike.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by cc6

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black.

If that is the case, either your perception of what is over the black is off, or their's is. There is no way a batter, or a base coach, for that matter, from their angle can tell the difference of cutting the black or cutting the white that touches the black.

If these complaints are constant, you missing by a lot more than just the black.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by Ump153

If that is the case, either your perception of what is over the black is off, or their's is. There is no way a batter, or a base coach, for that matter, from their angle can tell the difference of cutting the black or cutting the white that touches the black.

If these complaints are constant, you missing by a lot more than just the black.

I used to purposely call 2 balls off the plate, and sometimes even more. A couple years ago I cut down to where if it looked over the black to me, or just an inch off, I'd call it a strike. I guess that when working the slot, if the pitch appears to be an inch off it probably means the pitch is at least half a foot off the plate. I set up in the slot one time on an empty field, and a colleague zipped his fist across the outside area of the plate, then asked me where I thought it was. I said "ball. Just a little bit off the plate". Then I stood directly over the plate, not in my stance, and he zipped his fist over nearly the same location, and it turned out the pitch was actually 8 or 9 inches off the black.

From there I adjusted by making sure that if the pitch is even remotely off the black, call it a ball. Had one adult league batter who struck out on three pitches, all of them called, all of them over the outside corner and well framed by the catcher. He went back to the bench swearing and saying how far outside it was. Yes I should have tossed him. I assumed my perception of the outside corner might have been a little bit off, and after the game I said to my partner (who had been in the hole as there was a runner on base at the time) "those pitches must have been about 5 inches off the plate". He said back to me "no I think those pitches were perfect, right on the outside corner". So what am I to think? Partner clearly sees the calls as good, but the batter is whining and because of my past struggles with calling pitches too far outside, I believe I must have screwed up, when in fact I didn't.

The point is, it is important to get feedback from a reliable source on where that outside pitch is. I also pay close attention to whether the catcher moves towards the outside of the plate, or whether he has to reach for the pitch. If he does, it was probably outside.

[Steve87]

A strike is like pornography, everyone knows it when they see it……but individual tastes may vary.


Greetings to all.

[DonInKansas]

That's gotta be one of the more unique first posts I've ever seen.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

I get enough complaints from batters and base coaches for calling pitches that are over the black. There is no way I'm going to call 2 balls off the plate a strike.

The feedback your getting is not very reliable.

Bowling analogy: Its in or out of the lane, period. Your "zone" may vary. When you visualize the outside zone as "keeping the ball" out of the gutter, you will begin to nail the outside pitch.

Rule of thumb: Try to set up in the same position from game to game. Extend your left arm across your body. Your left hand serves as an outside mechanism which will become more natural over time. Another piece of information to consider before rendering a call.

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SAump

The feedback your getting is not very reliable.

Bowling analogy: Its in or out of the lane, period. Your "zone" may vary. When you visualize the outside zone as "keeping the ball" out of the gutter, you will begin to nail the outside pitch.

Rule of thumb: Try to set up in the same position from game to game. Extend your left arm across your body. Your left hand serves as an outside mechanism which will become more natural over time. Another piece of information to consider before rendering a call.

I've never heard the left arm analogy before. With a left handed batter at the plate, would it be the right arm across the body?

I do set up in the same place each pitch, except for if the catcher covers up the entire plate or the batter puts his hands in my line of vision. Then I am forced to improvise, and I find back and up doesn't work well unless I stand straight up.

I agree with Bob's statement that it is important to call the strikezone that gets the fewest complaints.

A swinger looks to pull everything he sees. A hitter goes with the pitch, including taking the outside pitch to the opposite field. If I'm doing a league full of swingers, meaning guys who are not willing to adjust to anything remotely outside, then I am going to call nothing off the black so that I avoid complaints and ejections.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by cc6

I've never heard the left arm analogy before. With a left handed batter at the plate, would it be the right arm across the body?

I do set up in the same place each pitch, except for if the catcher covers up the entire plate or the batter puts his hands in my line of vision. Then I am forced to improvise, and I find back and up doesn't work well unless I stand straight up.

I agree with Bob's statement that it is important to call the strikezone that gets the fewest complaints.

A swinger looks to pull everything he sees. A hitter goes with the pitch, including taking the outside pitch to the opposite field. If I'm doing a league full of swingers, meaning guys who are not willing to adjust to anything remotely outside, then I am going to call nothing off the black so that I avoid complaints and ejections.

The batter and his coach are not trying to help you. You cannot improve when you rely so much on what other people say they saw. Develop a reference zone for the outside pitch.

The left hand analogy applies to people who place their glove on their left hand and catch a baseball thrown on their right side backhanded {thumb down}. With an outside pitch thrown at a right handed batter, a lefthanded person would turn the glove over and reach out to the left to catch it forehanded {thumb up}.

You want to feel comfortable calling that outside pitch. It is all about a sense of location in or out of the zone. That is something the mind can handle much more quickly, and with a lot of confidence. IOW, as Evans says, proper use of the eyes provides the visual cues to the brain that result in the right call. Trying to measure the distance {brainwork} just makes the call that much harder.