And another weird one - Page 2

bluezebra · #16 (**permalink**) Sat Jun 22, 2002, 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
I'll probably regret this, but:

Peter postulated: "A good rule for umpires to follow:

"If you don't see it in MLB, don't allow it in your games." I never saw a batter deliberately swing at air in MLB to forestall an intentional walk, so I won't allow it where I work. It's that simple."

I don't believe that's in question. The question should be IF a batter in MLB were to take a swing at a pitch during an intentional walk, how would the ML umpire rule?

You really didn't prevent him from swinging. So much for "I won't allow that." In reality, you can't stop it. What is more important to your theory of doing what ML umps would do is finding out what they would indeed do should such a situation arise.

Who gives a rodent's rump what the MLB umps would do? They play a different game there. This is amateur ball. The batter swung. STRIKE. PERIOD.

Bob

Why not put this to some pro umps and find out? T.Alan always has contacts with some ML folks. I have some access to some minor league umps. Let's throw it at those guys, high and outside, and see if anyone swings.

His High Holiness · #17 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 24, 2002, 07:04am

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
I'll probably regret this, but:

Why not put this to some pro umps and find out? T.Alan always has contacts with some ML folks. I have some access to some minor league umps. Let's throw it at those guys, high and outside, and see if anyone swings.

Garth;

Here are your first two data points.

First, I need to specify, if I haven't already, that it was clearly obvious to everyone that the batter was not trying to hit the ball. He made a full cut as if the ball was right down the middle of the plate, belt high. He made no attempt to reach outside for the pitch that was about two feet off of the plate and high.

First data point:

I talked to an ex minor league umpire. (single A, three years) He opined that this would never happen in the minor leagues because it would result in a bean ball, but it it did happen, he would rule the same way that I did.

Second data point: (and the most important one for me.)

The President of the league was sitting in the stands and he called the assignor the next day about this play. (The assignor for this league is also the assignor for the CAA D1 conference.) The President was most perplexed. Like most of you, he could not understand how this was not a strike. My assignor told him that I nailed the play exactly right. He too, saw the potentiality of a bean ball and was glad that it had been averted. Over the weekend, he called me up to find out what reasoning I had used to justify this action.

I told him that I ruled that the batter did not go and that I asked the catcher if he wanted me to appeal to my partner. (Of course, the catcher declined.) That reasoning was good enough for him.

Fortunately, we umpires only have to please the guys we work for and not our fellow umpires on the internet. I'd rather have the boss happy and all of the internet against me than the other way around.

Peter

jicecone · #18 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 24, 2002, 07:39am

As I raise my hands to the sky and shake my head!!

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GarthB · #19 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 24, 2002, 11:39am

Peter:

In your first post, you stated:

"After a 3-0 count, the batter takes a big cut at ball four which is 2 feet outside."

From that, not being being a mind reader and relying only on what I had read, I understood that the batter swung at the ball.

Today's clarification more resembles a play with which I am familiar, to wit: 0-2 count pitches comes in about four feet high, destined for the back stop, batter swings, level, and takes off hoping for a free base on an uncaught third strike. No dice, c'mon back.

However, I still maintain you were mistaken in your reference to "call it like the bigs". You said that since this play never happens in the majors it would not happen on your field. But it did happen on your field and now you have to deal with it. I merely suggested that you deal with it as they would in the pros, and I did so without prior knowledge or, really, a formed opinion.

I also contacted a former minor league umpire. He also stated that it would probably end up with a beaning, but that ignoring the swing wouldn't change that. He reasoned he would call it similar to a check swing. If the batter leaned into or even feined in the direction of the ball, he would call the strike. Otherwise, he would treat it like the "uncaught third strike" play I described above.

For my own amusement, I have also sent the play to MLB for their opinion on what they would expect of their umpires in that situation. Again, I have no set opinion on the play and I honestly do not know how I would rule should it happen today.

Whether or not you feel the need to please officials with your calls is beside the point for me. I am more interested in a real ruling/authoritative opinion than an assignor pleasing call. (Even though, as an assignor, I enjoyed being pleased)