Correct FED balk mechanic?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

That was the point of my question. I'd love to learn the history as to why the balk rules diverged. There has to be a reason someone decided the ball should be dead for a balk in FED and someone decided the ball should still be live in OBR.

My daughter is as bad as I am, always asking "why?"

They both had it as an immediate dead ball. Then, OBR realized that this just punished the offense for a defense's mistake. So, OBR changed the rule.

FED hasn't, probably (my opinion) because it would be "too confusing" for FED umpires and coaches (present company excepted, of course).

[DG]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

They both had it as an immediate dead ball. Then, OBR realized that this just punished the offense for a defense's mistake. So, OBR changed the rule.

FED hasn't, probably (my opinion) because it would be "too confusing" for FED umpires and coaches (present company excepted, of course).

I think it would be less confusing to umpires to be same as OBR. I always assumed FED's interest in safety wanted this to be an immediate dead ball. A pitcher who has been trained to STOP when a balk is called is less likely to deliver a pitch that is driven back up the middle....

[voiceoflg]

Thanks Bob & DG.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by DG

I think it would be less confusing to umpires to be same as OBR.

There are a fair number of quetions every year over the interwebs about what to do when there's a blak followed by a throw / pitch -- does the coach get an option? when does the play end? what if it's a balk on a feint to first followed by an immediate-but-separate throw to second? what if some runers advance, but not all? what if a runner misses the first advance base and is then out on appeal? etc.

(Yes, I know most of us on here know the answers to those questions)

There's no doubt that the "a balk is an immediate dead ball" is simpler.

[ManInBlue]

Just like an INT at 2B on a FPSR, the "proper" mechanic would be to call time first - now everyone knows that nothing else can happen. Then point and call the balk and award. It would be "Time, that's a balk, you second base"

No I'm not using the FED manual. I'm basing this on NCAA clinics' (edit) proper mechanic for an immediate dead ball (like FPSR) and applying that same process here.

does it matter which way - not really. But I would think to be "proper" you should call time first.

Yes we can get into a habit of throwing our hands up and that will cause a doo-doo storm in an OBR sitch. That's what pre-game's for - go over the simple stuff and make sure we are thinking clearly and correctly. Then when there's a balk, we would point and let the play happen - avoiding the doo-doo on the fan.

Just my $.02 - that and a subway token wouldn't get you from Grand Central to Shey, but there it is.

[DG]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

Just like an INT at 2B on a FPSR, the "proper" mechanic would be to call time first - now everyone knows that nothing else can happen. Then point and call the balk and award. It would be "Time, that's a balk, you second base"

No I'm not using the FED manual. I'm basing this on NCAA clinics and applying that same process here.

Interesting that an NCAA clinic would tell you to call TIME, THAT's A BALK, since it is not immediate dead ball in NCAA, it's like OBR. FED is the one that is different.

The proper mechanic, for all levels, is THAT's A BALK. For FED this means time is called, for NCAA and OBR it is delayed dead, depending on what happens with the pitch, if one is delivered.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by DG

Interesting that an NCAA clinic would tell you to call TIME, THAT's A BALK, since it is not immediate dead ball in NCAA, it's like OBR. FED is the one that is different.

The proper mechanic, for all levels, is THAT's A BALK. For FED this means time is called, for NCAA and OBR it is delayed dead, depending on what happens with the pitch, if one is delivered.

I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I was using the FPSR application from the clinic and moving it over into a similar immediate dead ball situation. I did not mean to imply that at the clinic they taught us to call time on the balk. That was not my intent.

I meant that we were told to call time first on the FPSR then relay the "foul." It would be the same in FED with the balk.

[DG]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I apologize if that's the way it sounded. I was using the FPSR application from the clinic and moving it over into a similar immediate dead ball situation. I did not mean to imply that at the clinic they taught us to call time on the balk. That was not my intent.

I meant that we were told to call time first on the FPSR then relay the "foul." It would be the same in FED with the balk.

FED mechanic, like all others, is to call the balk, calling TIME is not needed.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

It would be "Time, that's a balk, you second base"

No I'm not using the FED manual. I'm basing this on NCAA clinics and applying that same process here.

Get your money back.

[ManInBlue]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Get your money back.

I see your point - but you didn't quote all of it - and that's not what I said, not what I meant to say anyway.

I started the post with a comment on the FPSR - it is an immediate dead ball - the proper mechanic is (as we were told) "(hands up) Time, (pointing) that's interference, out at second, out at first" - Translate that into a FED balk - kill it first

But thanks for misquoting and thanks for the advice.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by ManInBlue

I see your point - but you didn't quote all of it - and that's not what I said, not what I meant to say anyway.

I started the post with a comment on the FPSR - it is an immediate dead ball - the proper mechanic is (as we were told) "(hands up) Time, (pointing) that's interference, out at second, out at first" - Translate that into a FED balk - kill it first

But thanks for misquoting and thanks for the advice.

No, I didn't misquote. I copied and pasted your words. Edit? Sure.

Not being I mind reader, I didn't know what you meant, only what you said.