As an evaluator, I don't really care if you say "TIME, That's a balk" or That's a balk, TIME". Just as long as you get both statements in there, you do not get "gigged" on my sheet.

And I think that any argument about which is the correct statement is really making it stink! :rolleyes:

Straight from the FED umpire manual:

Balks: The umpire calling the balk shall point to the pitcher and call loudly, "That's a balk!". The ball is dead at the time of the balk. Umpires should signal a dead ball while calling out, "That's a balk!".

I don't see any requirement to say the word "time" at all.

But I'm kind of wondering how you both point AND raise your hands over your head at the same time! :confused:

What's a "FED umpire manual?"

It's a manual. For umpires. Issued by the NFHS.

Are you being purposely obtuse or have you never seen one of these?

I do, once every two years. Envelope to hands to a bit of humor to the trash.

I think he's just being funny and his group uses a different umpire manual.

That was the point of my question. I'd love to learn the history as to why the balk rules diverged. There has to be a reason someone decided the ball should be dead for a balk in FED and someone decided the ball should still be live in OBR.

My daughter is as bad as I am, always asking "why?"

They both had it as an immediate dead ball. Then, OBR realized that this just punished the offense for a defense's mistake. So, OBR changed the rule.

FED hasn't, probably (my opinion) because it would be "too confusing" for FED umpires and coaches (present company excepted, of course).

I think it would be less confusing to umpires to be same as OBR. I always assumed FED's interest in safety wanted this to be an immediate dead ball. A pitcher who has been trained to STOP when a balk is called is less likely to deliver a pitch that is driven back up the middle....

Thanks Bob & DG.

There are a fair number of quetions every year over the interwebs about what to do when there's a blak followed by a throw / pitch -- does the coach get an option? when does the play end? what if it's a balk on a feint to first followed by an immediate-but-separate throw to second? what if some runers advance, but not all? what if a runner misses the first advance base and is then out on appeal? etc.

(Yes, I know most of us on here know the answers to those questions)

There's no doubt that the "a balk is an immediate dead ball" is simpler.

Just like an INT at 2B on a FPSR, the "proper" mechanic would be to call time first - now everyone knows that nothing else can happen. Then point and call the balk and award. It would be "Time, that's a balk, you second base"

No I'm not using the FED manual. I'm basing this on NCAA clinics' (edit) proper mechanic for an immediate dead ball (like FPSR) and applying that same process here.

does it matter which way - not really. But I would think to be "proper" you should call time first.

Yes we can get into a habit of throwing our hands up and that will cause a doo-doo storm in an OBR sitch. That's what pre-game's for - go over the simple stuff and make sure we are thinking clearly and correctly. Then when there's a balk, we would point and let the play happen - avoiding the doo-doo on the fan.

Just my $.02 - that and a subway token wouldn't get you from Grand Central to Shey, but there it is.

Exactly, the most important thing is that you "call the balk". See way too many balks in FED every year that go uncalled.

Thanks
David

Interesting that an NCAA clinic would tell you to call TIME, THAT's A BALK, since it is not immediate dead ball in NCAA, it's like OBR. FED is the one that is different.

The proper mechanic, for all levels, is THAT's A BALK. For FED this means time is called, for NCAA and OBR it is delayed dead, depending on what happens with the pitch, if one is delivered.

Get your money back.