New Umpire School...O.U.T.S.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have umpired at Cocoa Expo before. It is a nice facility considering it was built by the Houston Colt 45's now the Houston Expos as its spring training facility when they became an expansion team in the National League.

I have a friend who is Mr. Baseball Umpire in Brevard County. If anybody knows anything about this school he will know. I will get back to this thread when I get more information.

MTD, Sr.

[UmpTTS43]

I'm sure this is a fine camp, however, for 1/2 of the price, one can attend one of Evans' Classic Clinics. There is a part of me that gets in my craw when you spend big $ for a camp, and end up working games that, more likely than not, are still paying for the umpires. Kind of like double dipping if you know what I mean.

Like I said, I'm sure this is a fine camp and is run by excellant people, I just had to throw out my .02.

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

I'm sure this is a fine camp, however, for 1/2 of the price, one can attend one of Evans' Classic Clinics. There is a part of me that gets in my craw when you spend big $ for a camp, and end up working games that, more likely than not, are still paying for the umpires. Kind of like double dipping if you know what I mean.

Like I said, I'm sure this is a fine camp and is run by excellant people, I just had to throw out my .02.

Thanks for saying we're are a fine camp and excellent people, and, if I may, I'd like to respond about the double dipping thing...and trust me, you have every right to wonder how that's going to work.

I am assuming that you mean the money would have been paid to the umpires is now going into the school's pockets. That's a very valid question you might have, but, my school is not going to take money from the Expo that somebody else has earned by working. I don't think that's fair, and I am not going to do it. My school would have every right, from a business standpoint, to do this, but I am like you, and I don't like that, either. As a matter of fact we haven't even discussed the pay standpoint. I've always just assumed that would be one of the attractive factors for the Expo to host our school.

If we ever do that, I think it would be cool if I could pay the umpires back that money. That would be an incentive, don't you think?

PS...I know the Evans' Classics are 1/2 our price, and Jim is a tremendous individual, so you'll never hear me say anything bad about them. However, I have had interest expressed from three independent leagues in the last 24 hours about observing our school for potential candidates for their leagues in 2009. I can't divulge which leagues yet, but I will have more to come when I get the okay from them.

Whew...there is my two cents!

Bob Bainter
O.U.T.S.

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I have umpired at Cocoa Expo before. It is a nice facility considering it was built by the Houston Colt 45's now the Houston Expos as its spring training facility when they became an expansion team in the National League.

I have a friend who is Mr. Baseball Umpire in Brevard County. If anybody knows anything about this school he will know. I will get back to this thread when I get more information.

MTD, Sr.

Hey, Mark! I have sent some letters to some associations in Florida, and would love to know who Mr. Baseball Umpire is, and that way I can get him as much information as he needs. Otherwise, this idea is so relatively new that about the only people who would have known about it are myself, my staff, and the Expo and the students that have already signed up. I would love to give anyone any information they require. If you have any questions, let me know, I'm available any time.

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School

[UmpTTS43]

Bob,

I appreciate your response and your honesty. I have been to camps before where he double dipping has occured and it did not make me happy. I attended one of Evans' Classics, so I have a little knowledge on that. I know that you and your staff are working to make this one of the premier camps out there and I'm sure you will succeed. I may even have to take a trip to Florida to check it out. You know us umpires, we always have to chirp about something, someone, especially during the off season. Best of luck and maybe I'll see you down the road in FL.

How 'bout those Gators?
Troy

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by SAump

I would like to throw this info inside.
Umpires work during scrimmage games at local university.
Both clinic and university benefit.

12th Annual South Texas Umpire Clinic

Not passing any assessment. Others opinion may vary. Just making info public.

I'll pass an assessment...with guys like Coffland, Moser, and Wendel...you CANNOT go wrong with going to that school, either!

I have had the pleasure of working with A.J. Wendel in Spring Training, Casey Moser at the AAA All-Star Game, and I knew Coffland...good guys, good program...

12 years...wow...keep it up!

Bainter

[Bob Bainter]

Hey, have some updated news on our school...

We've been in contact with three independent leagues over the past 72 hours and they have expressed interest in coming to our school to see what we're up to and perhaps...and I stress the word "perhaps"...take a look at our students for potential candidates. I can't divulge the names of these leagues yet because nothing is a "go" as of this post, but I'm confident they will be in attendance, and there is no better way of getting seen if this level of baseball is something you're interested than to have the supervisors of umpires for this league in attendance.

Also, all students who have signed up already and prospective students will have the opportunity to pre-order equipment and gear from Gerry Davis so any items they'd like to have will be ready for them when they arrive at the school. Not sure what the cut off date for pre-orders will be yet, but I will keep you up to date!

See you in February!

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School
Oceanside Umpire Training School - Home
309-363-9995

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Bob Bainter

Hey, have some updated news on our school...

We've been in contact with three independent leagues over the past 72 hours and they have expressed interest in coming to our school to see what we're up to and perhaps...and I stress the word "perhaps"...take a look at our students for potential candidates. I can't divulge the names of these leagues yet because nothing is a "go" as of this post, but I'm confident they will be in attendance, and there is no better way of getting seen if this level of baseball is something you're interested than to have the supervisors of umpires for this league in attendance.

Also, all students who have signed up already and prospective students will have the opportunity to pre-order equipment and gear from Gerry Davis so any items they'd like to have will be ready for them when they arrive at the school. Not sure what the cut off date for pre-orders will be yet, but I will keep you up to date!

See you in February!

Bob Bainter
Oceanside Umpire Training School
Oceanside Umpire Training School - Home
309-363-9995

This is not meant as a reflection on you, but rather on the Indies.

I would be disappointed if they switched from recruiting five week pro school grads and PBUC candidates to accepting two week camp grads. It would seem a step backwards in their endeavor to upgrade their umpiring ranks.

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

This is not meant as a reflection on you, but rather on the Indies.

I would be disappointed if they switched from recruiting five week pro school grads and PBUC candidates to accepting two week camp grads. It would seem a step backwards in their endeavor to upgrade their umpiring ranks.

I think you misunderstood me...I didn't say they were switching from five week pro school grads...they are just coming down to see what's new at our school, and one never knows what happens after that. I completely agree...I can't possibly teach what the five-week schools can in two weeks...Our school is simply an alternative for those who don't want a career in professional baseball, or can't make the time commitment from their families or their jobs...

PBUC is sending their candidates to the Coastal Plain League from now on...just saw that on the CPL website...interesting concept!


Bob

[realistic]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Sounds like Cocoa Expo has found a way to get free umpires.

In the past, new PBUC grads hung out and worked their games to pick up some bucks prior to rookie league start up.

Working "real games" at a camp is not all it's cracked up to be. Some games are really boring and you will get little chance to work on many skills.

The "camp games" used at pro schools allow students to experience many, many more situations and work on a more complete set of skills.

You are probably about 50% true. The benefit of working these games as a newbie umpire, you get to work out alot of kinks in your mechanics and will have a start at developing a style. The camp games are terrible imho because while different things are being thrown at you, an umpire has the tendency to overlook(miss) the basics. It's like trying to do open heart surgery when you are only qualified to do stitches.

I remember when I was at umpire school in the 80's, I was so worried about hustling and getting to the right spot that I missed a catcher's interference on the batter. Working a real game allows instructor's to see who has talent and who doesn't. An instructor won't put their stamp on an ump if they feel that they are ready to work Z ball.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by realistic

You are probably about 50% true. The benefit of working these games as a newbie umpire, you get to work out alot of kinks in your mechanics and will have a start at developing a style. The camp games are terrible imho because while different things are being thrown at you, an umpire has the tendency to overlook(miss) the basics. It's like trying to do open heart surgery when you are only qualified to do stitches.

I remember when I was at umpire school in the 80's, I was so worried about hustling and getting to the right spot that I missed a catcher's interference on the batter. Working a real game allows instructor's to see who has talent and who doesn't. An instructor won't put their stamp on an ump if they feel that they are ready to work Z ball.

Your are probably 25% accurate.

Over the course of a season, actual games are much better. However, over the course of a 13 day camp, one could work daily and never get to work on double play foot work, or calling an infield fly, or seeing type A obstruction, or many other situations.

Pro-schools have progressed since the 80's. Umpiring is not a static activity.

[Bob Bainter]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

Your are probably 25% accurate.

Over the course of a season, actual games are much better. However, over the course of a 13 day camp, one could work daily and never get to work on double play foot work, or calling an infield fly, or seeing type A obstruction, or many other situations.

Pro-schools have progressed since the 80's. Umpiring is not a static activity.

Yes, pro-schools have progressed a lot since the 80's. Camp games, have not. They're still a bunch of people playing baseball, who wouldn't be umpiring if they could actually PLAY baseball, trying to execute commands from their instructors on how to screw up their fellow students while the guys actually umpiring these camp games are wondering "when is the other shoe going to drop?"

If you really think that in the course of 13 days, working daily, an umpire will not get to work on double play footwork, then I want to come work with you, because I'd love to have 51-54 outs of boring baseball with all strikeouts and ground balls to first. Infield flies??? Do those not happen as much as I remember? Type A obstruction? You're right about that one, as any other screwed up plays...

...Great umpiring is all about handling situations...but what about all those games you work in a year that have none? When you don't know something is about to happen, that's when you see who has what it takes and who doesn't.

Not arguing, just debating my point of view

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Bob Bainter

Wow...that's not very nice.

Really? I expressed an opinion with which you apparently disagree, but what did I say that was not very nice? I was respectful and polite. Was it not nice to disagree with you?

Not arguing, just debating my point of view

I have no problem with that and I don't consider it as not being "nice."

Perhaps MiLB umpires get all of the possible variations of double plays frequently. I can tell you that I have gone a week or longer of seeing the same double play combination over and over in "real games."

Camp games better expose the potential PBUC candidates to the full spectrum of possibilities. The challenges of real games are what the Rookie Leagues are for.

Not arguing, just presenting my point of view, nicely.

[SanDiegoSteve]

That is so nice, ya know...just so darn nice!!!

[UmpTTS43]

I attended a clinic this past year where we worked games, three man mechnics. We would rotate and have up to 3 guys doing the plate for one game. Since I had been there before, I gave up my plate innings to a younger ump who was looking to break into college ball. While he was gearing up, I worked 1/2 an inning. There happened to be a DI assignor for 4 or 5 conferences up in the box observing. "My time to show what I have," I thought. First pitch, can of corn to center. Second pitch, line drive to SS. Third pitch, foul ball to back stop. Fourth pitch, ground out to F4. Yippee me, a four pitch inning. That's just the way it is sometimes. Another umpire, while working just 1/2 inning in the same game, had every rotation for a three man game. 1/2 inning took 35 min. Just the way it is sometimes. All I could say is, "great game management, huh." Just thought I would share.