Mlbum 5-4(1)

[SAump]

Just out of curiosity:

R1, base hit back to F1 who is distracted by possible play at 2B, B/R safely slides into 1B. Forgetting the rules, he stands up to shake the dirt out of his crotch. Big lumbering 1B applies a swipe tag and misses. The runner retreats a yard or two toward HP. F3 waits on the base with the ball. He realizes a chase would be futile. B/R is facing 1B but you know he's quick and can run away from F3. F3 is facing B/R but is holding R1 at 2B. When do I have desertion/abandonment when a tag play is now required or is this another stalemate? The 1B coach is screaming he called time but the umpire was slow in granting it. Action can be relaxed or unrelaxed, take your pick. The ruling from NY isn't expected for 3 more half-innings.

Reference: Roder's Problem #6

[greymule]

F3 should walk toward home, forcing the BR back toward the plate. At the same time, F3 should keep an eye on the other runner, holding him at 2B. When the BR retreats all the way to home plate, he's out. Merely moving backward toward the plate to avoid a tag is not abandonment.

Whatever the coach is screaming about time out is irrelevant.

[In case anybody cares: in ASA softball, the BR would be out for stepping backward to delay or avoid a tag, and even though the BR touched 1B, the . . . ahem . . . "force" at 1B is reinstated when the runner retreated toward the last base he "occupied" (home).]

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by SAump

Correct. OP did not give outs, but any good explanation would be "weak" at best. B/R obtained 1B.

Rules have recently changed about 3 outs ending an inning and advantageous 4th out appeals. Caseplay where R2 is tagged for 3rd out and following appeal at 1B is denied by current Pro rule interpretation, which allows run to score, has not met with scorekeepers approval. Clasic case of PRO umpires making UP the rules. These guys are umpires, not scorekeepers. That is another protest decision, yet to be resolved. Any umpire of an "umpinion" that it is true has another problem with public opinion. Fantasy League rules, maybe. It would be easier to amend 7.10 in about 10 years than explain that caseplay to the public.

You cannot make an "apparant fourth out appeal" for the BR failing to reach first base. That's not "PRO umpires making UP rules." It's PRO umpires FOLLOWING the rules.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

You cannot make an "apparant fourth out appeal" for the BR failing to reach first base. That's not "PRO umpires making UP rules." It's PRO umpires FOLLOWING the rules.

Umpires should enforce the written rules of baseball.

Edited note: Previous statements COMPLETELY deleted and cut to the point below.
Is the caseplay included in any edition of the 2008 MLBUM, JEA, J/R or PBUC "training" material?
Has the 1 year old caseplay been accepted and approved by the participants of NAPBL?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAump

Umpires should enforce the written rules of baseball.

Disagree. The rules have, according to Evans, 234 (or some such number -- I fully admit I just made that up) errors, ommissions, inconsistencies. Second, the MLBUM is an accepted interpetation of the rules and should be applied at the MLB level.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by SAump

I continually here this statement. I never hear how long ago he first mentioned it, 1968-1999?
If he hasn't fixed them on paper, how is an "academy grad" to demonstrate those skills?
I always enjoy heartwarming stories about umpire accomplishments.
I look forward to sitting back and enjoying the show!

you do know Jim Evans just teaches the pro school... he does not write or even sit on the rules Committee.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

you do know Jim Evans just teaches the pro school... he does not write or even sit on the rules Committee.

Its all we hear about every Christmas. He owns a competing website.

You DO know Mr Carl Childress published a book on the rule differences between FED, NCAA, and Pro including the gaps found between MLBUM and PBUC.

It only $30 dollars and it is by far the best book any young up and coming amateur umpire can discover for himself. The Pro guys advertise their stuff. You never hear them mention Mr. Childress.
He has very high connections on this website. I wouldn't be surprise if he owned it too.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

You cannot make an "apparant fourth out appeal" for the BR failing to reach first base. That's not "PRO umpires making UP rules." It's PRO umpires FOLLOWING the rules.

This situation was discussed at length earlier this year on a couple forums with no clear consensus amongst the participants. If you do a search, you'll find a pretty decent sized thread from earlier this year.