Hijacked from Basketball Board... with a baseball twist

[Kevin Finnerty]

I don't know where you live, but in Southern California, there are guys like him at several schools, and there is politics just as blatant as this at more than one school, and guys who are even more wildly abusive at many schools. There's a local JV guy who is the worst verbal abuser I have ever heard, and he's been at the same post for 20 years.

As for the coward I referred to: The guy whose place he took got implicated in drinking and weed smoking with some players. This is a major high school with several thousand students. If you can't believe it, then you should feel lucky to be free of it or free from the thought of it. I know the guy I spoke of in the community and even coached the son he once abused. His acts were fairly common knowledge. He abused his two sons right out of the game and then went to the local high school and sucked up to its most wealthy alumnus and that was it. Sorry you can't see it.

At another school, a former major leaguer rebuilt the school himself at $1 million-plus, and took over the program solely based on that. They just handed it to him with zero experience, no college education, and no real coaching or communications skills. He was a very good player, but didn't know three things about coaching. He was horrible, but solely based on his rebuilding the park, he was handed the program at a major high school in a very affluent area.

the real world around here. It's disgraceful, but not impossible.

So you wouldn't accept the assignment? Maybe I won't either. Maybe I won't get it, but it's almost a sure thing that I will. If I do, I will make sure that his players get the game they deserve, and not the one their coward coach deserves.

[Kevin Finnerty]

This is what I heard a coach scream at a kid while he got lit up: "You deserve to get knocked around like that! And I'm gonna' leave you out there to die!"

His father objected loudly to that kind of treatment. The coach said, "Get lost and take your pu$$y son with you!"

Only then did the UIC put him in the dugout and muzzle him. I begged God for him to open his mouth, so I could toss him, and he did and I did.

I went through all the channels you described, rather than meet him at his car and ask him what he has to say to me, like an uncivilized amateur might. That guy is still screaming at kids like that four years later as he will four years from now.

"You're killing this team!" ... "Can't you field a ground ball? Your sister can!" ... "You guys deserve to get killed. You stink!"

Those are some of his classics. JV coach at the school where we have our association meetings.

[CajunNewBlue]

well regarding the "crazy-a$$ed coaches you guys mention in the previous posts.... let me know where and when. I will gladly do his games. of course the mileage might be a little costly.

I do believe/I know they have coaches/dads/fans, who do and say the things mentioned. handle them accordingly, IMHO i use this rule.... if they say/do something that shocks me, I must act accordingly.... if they say/do something that doesn't shock me, I also must act accordingly.... its a judgment thing.

Happy New Years Y'all.. peace

[Cub42]

KF, one question. With this H/C's reputation and his on field behavior, how does he continue to be approved by the league/school? More puzzling to me is that parents would allow their kids to play on his team. I would think there would be a revolt by the parents who witness this treatment of their kids. I would offer this bit of advice to you on the subject of officiating games where you have a personal relationship with any of the participants. Perception becomes Reality.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Cub42

KF, one question. With this H/C's reputation and his on field behavior, how does he continue to be approved by the league/school? More puzzling to me is that parents would allow their kids to play on his team. I would think there would be a revolt by the parents who witness this treatment of their kids. I would offer this bit of advice to you on the subject of officiating games where you have a personal relationship with any of the participants. Perception becomes Reality.

His on-field behavior is subtle (the screamer is another area guy). He's a mentally cruel guy who's a womanizer and in the past assaulted his sons in public and also shoved a couple of other kids in separate incidents in PONY. A few people spoke up when he showed up at this school and they did nothing but kill it. He managed to get through a couple seasons as an assistant at a junior college before that, but, and I'll say this again, a player rebuilt the field and he and his dad wanted the guy as the coach, so he's the coach. I don't know why so many people think that politics don't play a part in who coaches some of these teams.

And generally (and I have seen every perspective, including parent), most parents do one of two things: They shut up and take it; or they pull their kid and go to another school.

I'm just trying to make a statement that baseball coaching in America at the high school level is deplorable and there are some glaring cases where people are all but forced to take it or don't play. Baseball dreams are shattered every day by some of these true rats.

And what part do you disagree with Steve?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

And what part do you disagree with Steve?

I think I pretty much outlined my position in my post, but for one thing, I disagree with the notion that hearing intentionally directed profanity through a known flimsy, thin-walled building, which is intended to piss off the umpire, is eavesdropping. This behavior should not be tolerated on the high school level. The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

I think I pretty much outlined my position in my post, but for one thing, I disagree with the notion that hearing intentionally directed profanity through a known flimsy, thin-walled building, which is intended to piss off the umpire, is eavesdropping. This behavior should not be tolerated on the high school level. The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off.

I neither ignore nor encourage such ill behavior. It's just that as the scenario was originally framed, what goes on inside gets stored and used at the first opportunity. I've done that. Or reported through all the right channels. I've done that. Or info was given to all others who are going to work the guy's games. I've done that. I've done whatever each situation called for according to my vastly experienced point of view. I can't eradicate bad coaching or abuse of young players. And I am not soft on it. I'll stand up to anyone over anything.

There's just a sanctity of the locker room issue that muddies this terribly.

[Tim C]

"Now the act of taking out F2 has not yet occured so you are telling me that we at this point should do nothing?"

Correct, we should do nothing. We should place the information in our data bank and watch what happens.

"There's just a sanctity of the locker room issue that muddies this terribly."

What you hear and see in a locker room stays there. Under the OP without the coach speaking directly to me nothing has happened. Again it simply goes in my data bank for use in the future if appropriate.

"The kids are just that. Kids. So what they hear that language all the time. They shouldn't hear it from their adult supervisors. If you ignore the behavior, you only encourage it. The coach who pulled this asinine stunt should be at the very least reprimanded and warned to knock it off."

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans. I have never, nor would I ever, comment to a coach about his language or actions to his shaving aged players.

Regards,

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Tim C

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans.

Tee as always I respect and value your opinion but one question

Suppose the coach was berating your son or instructing your son to perform a malicious act upon another player.

I realize for the most part you would not be officiating your sons game but the point is it could be a player who is close to you

Would your tune change?

Best Wishes to you and your family during this Holiday weekend.

Pete Booth

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Tim C

At the high school level and above (which is all I can speak of) it is not my job or interest to play policeman over coaches. I do not care what coaches say to their assistant coaches, players or even fans. I have never, nor would I ever, comment to a coach about his language or actions to his shaving aged players.

My post did not mean to suggest commenting directly to the coach about his abusive language, it was meant to convey that I would report his actions to his superiors and the governing board of the local federation. I'm not going to tolerate a coach badmouthing the officials with the express intention of making sure the officials can hear what he says. That is baiting the umpires, and instead of taking the bait and respond directly, I suggest reporting the obnoxious behavior to the proper authorities.

Also, many high school players still have not reached shaving age, so I don't consider them "shaving aged." They are still impressionable youths (or "youtes"), and adults should be setting a good example. Swearing is not appropriate behavior in society, regardless of your belief system.

[Tim C]

"Suppose the coach was berating your son or instructing your son to perform a malicious act upon another player."

How I would react to something if I were a parent is far different than as a paid official.

This year I will be working two separate players that are sons of people I work with . . . that being said I would never consider placing my values on any coach/player relationship. It would be, in my opinion, pretentious and an unreasonable intervention in a relationship that is, by definition, none of my "freakin'" business.

Let me give you another apple to apple example:

Let's say the head coach of the Milleville High School "Flying Mint Farmers" walks down to the end of the dugout, slips behind the end wall and lights up a big Cubana.

I would call time and go to him and say: "Skip ya need to get rid of that and get back into the dugout."

He has two choices:

1) Do what I said and stay in the game or,

2) Be ejected for not following my clearly defined order.

I would not involve myself unless it was clearly defined that I had the responsibility, by rule, to do something.

Without trying to morph this thread farther: Profanity from coach to player can be handled. But something as simple as the OP or a coach telling a player something such as "steam roll the catcher" is far from my duty to handle DURING the game.

Respectfully,

[Kevin Finnerty]

Okay, fine.

I really do what I do for the right reasons. I respect the game more than you can imagine. I don't know why you are painting me otherwise.

I am also a realist, so I guess that makes me hard for some to relate to.