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[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

ok here is the answer...

In (a), R2 is not out and the run counts. F2 would have had to tag him for the appeal. In (b), it is an appeal play and R2 is out since he left the plate area heading for the dugout. The runner has to make an Immediate effort to return, of course this is a judgment call.

So, everyone gave you the correct answer, you had no clue as to why they were correct, (as disclosed by your question regarding relaxed and unrelaxed action), and then you repeated their answers in an attempt to demonstrate that even if you didn't know why they were correct, you knew they were correct.

Strange game.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by Ump153

So, everyone gave you the correct answer, you had no clue as to why they were correct, (as disclosed by your question regarding relaxed and unrelaxed action), and then you repeated their answers in an attempt to demonstrate that even if you didn't know why they were correct, you knew they were correct.

Strange game.

Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..

I knew that people had given the right answers... Likek I said i wanted to see if anyone knew the answers.. I had gotten the new study guide...

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..

Please show me where your OP stated the rule set.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Please show me where your OP stated the rule set.

What i was referring to was, That I have no idea about J/R manual...What i said was the Relaxed and unrelaxed is not any any of the rules books.... So I know I need the J/R manual.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Not everyone gave correct answer...and I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..

As been stated you will NOT find the terms Re-laxed / Un-relaxed action in the rule book.

Since you said that is a Jaska and Roder thing.. it's apparent that you do not adhere to authoritative opinion concerning the rules.

It has been noted that there are some 230 errors contained in the OBR rule-book and that's why it's important at least IMO to have supplemental materials such as the J/R manual to better explain the rules through case play examples.

Pete Booth

[Kevin Finnerty]

I suppose there is a difference between errors and insufficiencies. The 230 number covers a lot more than just errors in the rules.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I suppose there is a difference between errors and insufficiencies. The 230 number covers a lot more than just errors in the rules.

It covers errors and inconsistencies....not insufficiencies.

[Umpmazza]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;561384]

As been stated you will NOT find the terms Re-laxed / Un-relaxed action in the rule book.

Since you said that is a Jaska and Roder thing.. it's apparent that you do not adhere to authoritative opinion concerning the rules.

It has been noted that there are some 230 errors contained in the OBR rule-book and that's why it's important at least IMO to have supplemental materials such as the J/R manual to better explain the rules through case play examples.

Pete Booth

Pete your right I dont have a Jaska and Roder book.. Its on my Xmas list...LOL

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

Mazz if you get paid for your services and Santa does not get you the JR manual perhaps you can use some of the game FEES to purchase it.

FWIW I would also purchase Carl Childress's BRD (Baseball Rule differences) which you can get on this site.

Pete Booth

[DG]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

I have never heard of the Relaxed or Unrelaxed... that is a Jaska and Roder thing... please show me that in the OBR rules, NCAA rules..

If you depend only on the rule books you will never be a good umpire. You must get supplemental study materials that explain in greater detail, and/or explain what is not explained by the written rules.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by DG

If you depend only on the rule books you will never be a good umpire. You must get supplemental study materials that explain in greater detail, and/or explain what is not explained by the written rules.

I actually don't think this is true.... BTW I have a CCA manual, both PBUC's, and the MLB umpire Manual, NFHS rules by topic.

[SAump]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

I actually don't think this is true.... BTW I have a CCA manual, both PBUC's, and the MLB umpire Manual, NFHS rules by topic.

On a philoshophical note, DG's statement is rather bold.
The fact you have them proves his point very well.

[greymule]

Fed did have an "accidental force play," where a fielder with the ball could get an out if he happened to kick dirt off a base that a runner had been forced to when he missed it. But this wouldn't have applied to the play in the OP. (Of course, Fed also went through a period when, for missed bases, umpires simply called outs, without any appeal.) The accidental force play derived from the way Fed wanted umpires to call the play in which the BR beats the throw to 1B but misses the bag and is five steps down the RF line when F3 gloves the ball. In OBR, of course, the call is safe and look for the appeal; in Fed, the call used to be "out." Pete explained above how they now rule.

In terms of OBR rules, there are uncountable plays for which correct decisions require knowledge of supplemental materials. We could all cite play after play for which reliance on the rule book alone would be futile.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by greymule

We could all cite play after play for which reliance on the rule book alone would be futile.

Prior to reading this thread I'd have agreed with you, but apparently not all could do this.

[Umpmazza]

Originally Posted by SAump

On a philoshophical note, DG's statement is rather bold.
The fact you have them proves his point very well.

I have had these books since I started to Umpire.... But I simply said, and I could be wrong, but you dont need these books to be a good umpire, simply knowing the rules and when to apply them is all you need. Those books help us to become better umpires, they also help us understand and interpret the rules in a better way. Which is why in a few days I will buy the J/R manual, as It is the only one I currently do not own.