The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Baseball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 12:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 138
Here's a question for ya. I know two umpires who share the dish with their sons, which I think is great. Who better to have out there with you than your own flesh and blood. I have a daughter (age 2). Let's say that her and I are out there one day and one of the coaches, being the male that he is, makes a derogatory/sexual comment about her. Am I at liberty to toss him because of the comment? What if she wasn't my daughter but a female partner I had just met? Would a derogatory comment (male to female) be held in the same regard as a typical negative comment from a coach to a umpire (male to male)?

Jackie, have you or any other female umpires had to deal with any comments like that? If so, how did you handle it? Have any of you guys out there ever been partnered with a female umpire and run into a situation like that? Just curious.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 07:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
I think that is something you would want to discuss with your partner in pregame and ask them how they want it handled. In the case of profanity, obviously they are gone whether it be male or female, but for simple gender based comments, I would want my partner to determine for herself what would consitute a tossable offense. To put it simply, I am not qualified to judge that.

Now, that's for a regular female partner. If it was my daughter, if the coach even looks funny, he's gone.
__________________
David A. Brand
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 08:00am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
Originally posted by spots101

Here's a question for ya. I know two umpires who share the dish with their sons, which I think is great. Who better to have out there with you than your own flesh and blood. I have a daughter (age 2). Let's say that her and I are out there one day and one of the coaches, being the male that he is, makes a derogatory/sexual comment about her. Am I at liberty to toss him because of the comment? What if she wasn't my daughter but a female partner I had just met? Would a derogatory comment (male to female) be held in the same regard as a typical negative comment from a coach to a umpire (male to male)?

Jackie, have you or any other female umpires had to deal with any comments like that? If so, how did you handle it? Have any of you guys out there ever been partnered with a female umpire and run into a situation like that? Just curious.


If a coach utters any Comments that deal with one's sexuality, religion, race or color not only are they ejected, but possibly will be gone for some time.

Today, teams are made up of many diverse athletes, so if a coach uttered a derogatory comment towards an umpire concerning one's sexuality, religion, race or color, they would also lose the respect of their players and I do not think the parents would appreciate it either.

Stick to baseball issues. Derogatory comments whether male to male or male to female are not acceptable. No-one should be degraded. If a coach thinks that an umpire is incompetent, there are PROFESSIONAL ways of dealing with this, like calling the assignor etc. No need for name calling

Pete Booth



__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 08:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 276
I agree with Pete. Any comment based on any of the
things in his list, coach is GONE. This is in regard
to anyone involved in the game, but ESPECIALLY my
partner. Don't get too hung up with dealing with a
female umpire as far as when to step in, etc. Treat
her the same a you would a guy partner.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 08:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
OK, so if . . .

a coach says, "What's a darn gone woman doing here to work my game?" (Kinda like the previous thread we had with the college coach) you are going to eject him? Is that what you are saying?

Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 11:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
I will reiterate that I think that this should be handled by the female in question. If a coach insults your male partner are you going to eject him or are you going to let your partner determine whether he should be ejected or not? You will obviously support your partner's decision, but I don't think you can make it for him.

I think this is a situation that should be discussed in pregame so everyone understands how it should be handled, but the line has to be drawn by the umpire that this is directed at.
__________________
David A. Brand
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 04:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 138
Pete,

I don't understand how this isn't a baseball issue. I had an honest question because I have only umpired with men and I have learned to never take anything or any situation for granted in this game. I am in a female dominated profession (nursing) so I would like to see more females enter the ranks of umpiring. Whether male or female, it takes a special kind of person to do this job and it was just an honest thought and I wanted to see what you guys thought about it. If you think I am trying to make a mockery out of this or just post something for the heck of it you are wrong. I would never do that. I respect the opinions posted on this site. Some I use in my game and some I don't. That's the beauty of it all.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 04:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,716
I don't remember what number Carl labeled this in his book "51 Ways to Ruin a Baseball Game" but, YOU BETTER DARN WELL support your partner and eject that coach or your insulting the uniform and profession you represent.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 09:14pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 201
Spots - I don't think it's an unreasonable question. Interesting to consider.

Everybody else -
Let me be clear. I am not saying that I would not throw the coach out. The whole idea of gender or raced based comments makes my blood boil just thinking about it. However, I think that the right way to handle it is to let the female (or whatever race, religion or creed that the comment was aimed at) umpire throw the coach out and support her. The coach is gone either way. I just don't want to precipitously eject a coach and then have my partner come to me after the game and say "I wish you had not done that."
__________________
David A. Brand
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 09:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 872
I don't normally post here. (Hi, guys!) But I thought I would chime in on this one, being uniquely qualified.

I have yet to hear any comments of that sort but I have yet to work anything above Sandy Koufax.

The only thing that I have ever felt along the lines of discrimination of any sort has been a frequency of managers approaching the PU to ask if I can help on a call. I find it too often necessary to remind them that they need to talk to me, by rule. This has happened five times this year but not once when I have been PU have I been asked to help the BU on a call.

Other than that it is hard to tell if the attitude of the coach is because I am an umpire or if it any deeper because I am a FEMALE umpire.

I often hear comments along the lines of "Hey, it's a woman!" but nothing after the game starts. Once I umpired a LL interleague game with an umpire from the other league. One of the players from his league saw me before the game and said, "We have a girl umpire!" My partner immediately told him that there would be no more of that. I did think that was out of line because I am an anomaly and they should be able to be able to express surprise.

I have heard of some areas where it can be bad but perhaps people are a bit different here in the Northwest.

Rita
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jun 03, 2002, 10:28pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Newburgh NY
Posts: 1,822
Originally posted by spots101

Pete,

I don't understand how this isn't a baseball issue. I had an honest question because I have only umpired with men and I have learned to never take anything or any situation for granted in this game.


Perhaps I should have made my comment clearer. I was referring to a coach and that the only thing that should matter on the baseball diamond are baseball issues not what color someone is or what gender they are.

I did not mean for my comment to come across as negative and that this subject matter was not a baseball issue.

However, whether male or female expect the "rookie" treatment when you are the "new" kid on the block.

Pete Booth
__________________
Peter M. Booth
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2002, 08:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 276
Re: OK, so if . . .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tim C
a coach says, "What's a darn gone woman doing here to work my game?" (Kinda like the previous thread we had with the college coach) you are going to eject him? Is that what you are saying?

Me as her partner: "Well coach, that darn
gone woman is here to work, same as me.
And, she's darn good at it, too."

This is NOT an ejection comment (IMO)
unless he takes it further and refuses
to play, continues to make commets, etc.

The woman in our association rarely has any
of this happen. And after one half inning,
they KNOW she is a very competent umpire.
After one game, they're glad to have her back.
We never have any pregame discussion regarding
any gender issues.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2002, 09:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,729
Marty,

Here in wet old Portland, OR I have worked with Pam (our only female varsity umpire) and found her superior to many of my men crew mates.

I also attended Golden State Umpire Clinic with Rita (see above) and with the exception of the experience factor I found her to be quite proficient.

HOWEVER, I just know too many college, semi-professional and professional coaches (and managers) that would stew inside if a female umpire showed for the game.

I do believe that in the public sector (FED, College, etc.) that your response is well worthy of the situation -- I think the women that have worked PROFESSIONAL games will tell you a little different story.

We know clearly that women have it tough (impossible?) in pro ball because the battles against them are fought behind the scenes and not openly.

Also, one final thought: I have always been a supporter of accepting any school or coach that decided to "scratch" me or any of my partners. I have always felt "if they don't want me fine, I don't want to be there!"

Now we have a whole new issue: Can a coach "scratch" a woman umpire (BTW, here a coach does not need to give any reason and is allow two "free"scratches a year) for no apparant reason.

Good post.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2002, 09:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 276
I wasn't really responding in regards to
professional baseball. I do HS, Legion,
Senior youth leagues, AAU, adult amateur,
etc. Pro baseball is a whole other ballgame.

If an umpire is going to be "scratched,"
it will happen, as you say, with no reason
necessary. If it is because the coach doesn't
want a woman ump, he can blackball her without
saying that is the reason. Oviously, men
are scratched all the time, in HS and college
levels.

However, we were talking about dealing with
gender issues while AT a game (umpires are
already assigned). This would vary by situation.

From what I understand, in both baseball and
basketball, woman officials don't want to be
advanced because they are a female (more likely
in basketball), but they also don't want to be
held back for that reason either (more likely in baseball).
They just want to be assigned because of the good job they do
(as an official, not a female official). I doubt if this will really ever be the case in our society.




Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2002, 10:46am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 872
To Tee

I have never attended the Golden State Umpire Clinic. It must be another Rita.

Rita
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:36am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1