Well, Well, it finally happened

[jkumpire]

This came from the Basketball Forum, but I had seen it other places too. I was waiting until now, to see if anyone else posted it.

Comments?

I love the smell of testerone in the morning ...

"We finally really did it. You Maniacs! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
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Indiana Girl Sues To Play Baseball
November 25, 2008
The Associated Press
INDIANAPOLIS - Being a girl hasn't kept Logan Young from playing baseball with the boys for nine years, and she and her parents don't think that should change now that she's in high school. The 14-year-old and her family have filed a federal lawsuit over an Indiana High School Athletic Association rule that prohibits the Bloomington South freshman from trying out for the high school baseball team because she is female. "In this day and age, a girl should have the opportunity to participate on an equal footing with the boys in high school sports, and the IHSAA precludes that," Fishers attorney Tae Sture said Monday. "Our feeling is, quite frankly, there's no rational reason for it," he said. An IHSAA rule prohibits girls from trying out for baseball if their school has a softball team on the basis that the sports are comparable. But the lawsuit filed Friday in U.S. District Court in Indianapolis argues that baseball and softball aren't really the same sport, so girls should be able to try out for baseball. The suit seeks to have the IHSAA rule thrown out based on the equal protection clause of the 14th Amendment to the Constitution and Title IX, the federal law that mandates equal educational opportunities for boys and girls.The suit, filed by Logan and her parents, Marie-Elisabeth and Russell Young of Bloomington, names the IHSAA and the Monroe County Community school district as defendants.Logan has played third base and outfield in coed community baseball leagues since age 5. She also plays volleyball and basketball.Her family contacted the IHSAA in May to see whether Logan could participate in baseball during the 2008-09 season. Commissioner Blake Ress said she couldn't because Bloomington South has a softball team, the lawsuit said.Ress said Monday he had not seen the lawsuit but that the girl's family and the school had not applied for a waiver from the rule."Last spring we had a girl from Wabash and gave her a waiver to allow her to play," Ress said. "Our intent was, if we had others, we would do that. This (lawsuit) is kind of out of the blue to me."The high school, which has a female kicker on its football team, supports Logan's desire to play and will seek a waiver so she can try out for baseball, said Bloomington South athletic director J.R. Holmes.But the lawsuit argues that a waiver shouldn't be necessary."Softball and baseball are not the same sport, so she has the right to try out," said Sharon F. McKee, the lead attorney in the case. Under current rules, a boy wanting to play softball also would have to seek a waiver, she said. Precedent may be on Logan's side, according to McKee. The West Virginia Supreme Court ruled in a similar case in 1989 that baseball and softball are not substantially equal sports, she said.
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Now I support Title IX as much as anybody else. My two daughters played both high school, and college sports, and were treated the same, and given the same amount of funding, as the guys. But the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Let's say that a young man at Bloomington South is the last candidate cut from the baseball team as a freshman, and as a sophomore. As a junior, he decides that he has a better shot at making the softball team, and wants to tryout. Here's a sixteen year old, six foot, five inch, 225 pound, testosterone filled, muscular, male, who would have an obvious physical advantage over these young women. Providence College lost it's baseball team due to Title IX. Other colleges and universities, have lost mens gymnastics, and other "minor" mens sports. And in some states, young men are more than willing to wear a skirt to play field hockey. When will common sense prevail?

By the way, I hope she makes the baseball team. If boys, in some states, can play field hockey, then she should be able to play baseball.

[ozzy6900]

And this story affects umpires, how?

I personally don't care if girls play baseball or not. I think that if girls want to play with boys, they should be treated equally - right down to the showers and the locker room. They want to be equal, then they should be equal all the way. Typical N.A.G. thinking results in girls being on the team and being "equal" but then they need their own locker room and shower.

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

And this story affects umpires, how?

I personally don't care if girls play baseball or not. I think that if girls want to play with boys, they should be treated equally - right down to the showers and the locker room. They want to be equal, then they should be equal all the way. Typical N.A.G. thinking results in girls being on the team and being "equal" but then they need their own locker room and shower.

http://tinyurl.com/328smg

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

And this story affects umpires, how?

I personally don't care if girls play baseball or not. I think that if girls want to play with boys, they should be treated equally - right down to the showers and the locker room. They want to be equal, then they should be equal all the way. Typical N.A.G. thinking results in girls being on the team and being "equal" but then they need their own locker room and shower.

So you do care if girls play baseball.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

So you do care if girls play baseball.

Re-read my post, Kevin. I don't care if they play. What I care about is that women want to be equal with conditions. That is not equality in my book. Some people think that this is "cave man thinking" (like Ump153 does) but I've been through enough of this "equality crap" in my life and I don't have to agree with it!

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Re-read my post, Kevin. I don't care if they play. What I care about is that women want to be equal with conditions. That is not equality in my book. Some people think that this is "cave man thinking" (like Ump153 does) but I've been through enough of this "equality crap" in my life and I don't have to agree with it!

Well, if you want to impose limits on yourself in this one life, you are free to do so. I have no problem with your opinion. Just admit the truth of your exclusive stance.

That statement shows rather vividly that you indeed care that women not be allowed to play baseball alongside men. By proposing the unworkable requirement of having a woman dressing and undressing alongside men reveals your bias against the concept, and is the genesis of your being accused of having Neanderthal thinking.

[gordon30307]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Re-read my post, Kevin. I don't care if they play. What I care about is that women want to be equal with conditions. That is not equality in my book. Some people think that this is "cave man thinking" (like Ump153 does) but I've been through enough of this "equality crap" in my life and I don't have to agree with it!

I guess you don't have daughters. Maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia where the women can't drive..... Just a thought.

[Kevin Finnerty]

In the 1984 Olympics, I watched a team of studs like Mark McGwire, B.J. Surhoff, Will Clark, Cory Snyder, Barry Larkin and Shane Mack get their asses handed to them by a Japanese team with a bunch of little guys who were built like Ichiro. It was astonishing how a bunch of little finesse guys could beat a powerhouse like that.

So I can see how a woman could finesse her way onto a club and contribute just fine. It is an occasional exceptional gal who brushes with greatness enough to compete at the same level as guys ... the Michelle Wie of baseball, if you will. For people like us to have the door closed seems inappropriate and based almost solely on bigoted thinking.

However, I do not have a stomach for the social and legal nonsense that JKumpire alluded to that often arises from issues like these. I also laugh at specious contentions made about the overall equality of male and female athletes ("The WNBA is just as competitive as the men's NBA, so why don't they get paid like the men?").

We are legally and socially equal, but not physically. A woman who makes it in competitive baseball will do so with a style of play that is based on guile and finesse, along with a huge share of character and determination. It will be a rare and remarkable woman who'll do it, but it can happen.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by gordon30307

I guess you don't have daughters. Maybe you should move to Saudi Arabia where the women can't drive..... Just a thought.

You know what? I happen to have two daughters who agree that if you want equality, it should be equality all the way! they played softball and girl's basketball. Neither would dream of playing baseball as they both said that men are barbaric when it comes to sports (that's their opinion, not mine).

Now you can take your statement and shove it where the sun doesn't shine, there Gordie! And so can the rest of you out there!

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

And this story affects umpires, how?

I personally don't care if girls play baseball or not. I think that if girls want to play with boys, they should be treated equally - right down to the showers and the locker room. They want to be equal, then they should be equal all the way. Typical N.A.G. thinking results in girls being on the team and being "equal" but then they need their own locker room and shower.

When I officiate with men, we are either given separate changing facilities or take turns using the ones the men use.

But we draw the line at being given the janitors closet unless the men are also using a janitor's closet.

I guess that's what equality means. And since most schools also have girls locker rooms, it really isn't an issue, is it?

Rita

[umpjong]

The solution is a very simple one. All sports should be coed. No boys and girls basketball, just basketball. No girls softball and boys baseball, just softball and just baseball. Each child may try out for any and all sports they wish.

[Tim C]

Every year I try to work one game at a small school we cover. Catlin Gable School starts at least two girls and sometimes more on their varsity baseball team.

Many times girls start when there are still males on the bench.

I really couldn't care less about the gender of players in my game.

All I will say is "some" players smell better than others.

Regards,

[Umpmazza]

In Monterey, Ca I umpired a High School team that had a girl playing 2nd and sometimes SS..and She actually wasnt that bad. I really didnt care that she was playing, She had good hands and a decent arm.

Now on the other hand. can the boys go and try out for the girls sports...i.e.. if a school doesnt have boys Volleyball, can the boy go and try out for the girls volleyball team?

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by Umpmazza

In Monterey, Ca I umpired a High School team that had a girl playing 2nd and sometimes SS..and She actually wasnt that bad. I really didnt care that she was playing, She had good hands and a decent arm.

Now on the other hand. can the boys go and try out for the girls sports...i.e.. if a school doesnt have boys Volleyball, can the boy go and try out for the girls volleyball team?

no they can't.

[rcjhyman]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

no they can't.

Yes, they can. A quick search shows Mass has specific rules for boys playing on girls volleyball teams. I believe my state (NJ) has had boys playing on girls lacrosse teams in the recent past.

Re baseball: I've umpired several games with girls at the JV baseball level - one even pitched. While not quite studs (oxymoron?) they were certainly at least average ball players for that level.