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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 21, 2002, 01:04pm
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Posts: 276
Here's one for you "Masters of the
Rule Book.":

OBR (HS not using FED)

Bases loaded due to F1 walking last two
batters. We're up to about Ball 10 (total),
and next pitch bounces by and gets stuck in
the backstop fence about 18 inches above the
ground, just lodged there. The catcher pulls
it out easily.

What's the call? Guess what my partner
thought the rule was?


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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 01:37pm
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Dead ball, all runners awarded 1 base, ball 3 on the batter.
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 02:03pm
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Why was this situation not discussed at the pre-game?

Bob
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 07:00pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marty Rogers
Here's one for you "Masters of the
Rule Book.":

OBR (HS not using FED)

Bases loaded due to F1 walking last two
batters. We're up to about Ball 10 (total),
and next pitch bounces by and gets stuck in
the backstop fence about 18 inches above the
ground, just lodged there. The catcher pulls
it out easily.

What's the call? Guess what my partner
thought the rule was?


Marty,

Think of it this way, what if the ball was lodged too high for the fielder to reach? Would you make him shake it down, meanwhie there is a merry-go-round on the bases? This is a common occurrence in baseball, so you will see it again. Oh, don't forget to check the baseball. JOHN

BlueZebra,

I don't see the need to over this at a plate meeting since a great deal of fields have fences that can allow a ball to stick. It is pretty well understood, sort of like a ball rolling under the fence...we all know what to do on that so need to discuss it...just where a hole might be. We don't get paid enough to discuss "small detail" here in OK, so I don't want to spend a day talking to the coaches about every possible incident in a game. Let me know what is live or dead on facings, piping on dugouts, scoreboard, etc. and let's go. Baseball is a weird game with things happening all the time that have yet to be seen, that's why it so much fun! If and when it happens, Major League rule book says that any situation not covered in the rule book is left to the best judgement of the umpire. JOHN
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Old Tue May 21, 2002, 09:23pm
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Just to let you know, I DID know the
ruling. SamNVa called it properly.
I just wanted to see if there were any
other suggestions. 7.05(h) Approving Rule
addresses this (a lodged ball is a dead ball
for this example) situation. It is a basic
book rule, as John mentioned.

My partner (who prides himself on his
vast knowledge of the rules) said we
couldn't apply it that way because we
didn't discuss it in the ground rules
before the game. hmmm...
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 01:09am
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally posted by Marty Rogers
Just to let you know, I DID know the
ruling. SamNVa called it properly.
I just wanted to see if there were any
other suggestions. 7.05(h) Approving Rule
addresses this (a lodged ball is a dead ball
for this example) situation. It is a basic
book rule, as John mentioned.

My partner (who prides himself on his
vast knowledge of the rules) said we
couldn't apply it that way because we
didn't discuss it in the ground rules
before the game. hmmm...
Hmmm...if I were a coach I would lose it and would say every curse word I could think of if your partner were to disallow a base because we did not cover it in the plate meeting! People do not come to games to see us umpire. We dress professional and try to look sharp to have a credible impression, we apply the rules to the spirit of the game. Pulling a rule out of nowhere for some unknown reason would set any high school or college coach here in flames. There would be little work to be found for something like that to happen. It is great to know the rules inside and out, I only wish I could claim I had such a knowledge, however I like to have games to do. Example: Astros at Braves, Astros pitcher is wearing his usual Sunday red uniform top that reads Astros. The rest of the club is wearing their coorect road red HOUSTON jersey. Kind of hard to not notice since it was the pitcher not in the correct uniform. The way I noticed was I know that at least the majority of the time a road club will wear a jersey that bears the club's city name, and at home the team name. Even the umps in the big leagues keep things to themselves and take rules and turn to deaf ears, eyes...what have you. JOHN
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 01:45am
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'We don't get paid enough to discuss "small detail" here in OK, so I don't want to spend a day talking to the coaches about every possible incident in a game.'

This is a very unprofessional attitude. In other words, if you get more money, you'll cover more details. How long does it take to say, "If the ball gets stuck in the backstop, it's dead. Runners advance one base". Maybe you should ask for another 25 cents.

Since there was confusion among the players coaches, and even your partner, the situation SHOULD have been discussed at pre-game.

Bob
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 06:54am
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Originally posted by soonerfan

Originally posted by Marty Rogers [/i]

Hmmm...if I were a coach I would lose it and would say every curse word I could think of if your partner were to disallow a base because we did not cover it in the plate meeting! People do not come to games to see us umpire. We dress professional and try to look sharp to have a credible impression, we apply the rules to the spirit of the game. Pulling a rule out of nowhere for some unknown reason would set any high school or college coach here in flames.

Let's see this F1 just walked 2 batters in a row, had a count of 2-0 and threw a wild pitch. Regardless if the umpire got this call correct or not, does not give a HS coach (probably a teacher as well) carte blanche to lose it and start cursing at the umpire.

Most HS coaches are teachers. Suppose Little Johnny didn't do his homework the night before would you deem it acceptable behavior if this teacher lost it and cursed out this student. If the teacher did that - goodby tenure

Also, this F1 walked 2 batters in a row and even if the umpire didn't make the correct call, chances are he would have walked batter number 3. Now can Blue lose it and start cursing at the coach "Common coach get someone in here who knows how to pitch".

It amazes me that no matter how bad a game is (F1 can't find the plate, the defense can't make a play), that when Blue makes a mistake people think it's ok to lose it and start cursing them out and then we wonder why there is a general lack of officials around the country.

If you as coach did lose it and start cursing, you might as well head for the parking lot and be ready to answer your AD, because a letter is coming your way.

If a HS coach thinks that an umpire is not doing his /her job, there is a Professional way to handle it and it is called the evaluation system In HS coaches have a say in who does their games, so in stead of losing it - Be professional.

In life things are not always going to go one's way and when they don't one has to learn how to control themselves. The jail cells are full of individuals who lost it

Pete Booth
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Old Wed May 22, 2002, 09:01am
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Guys:
There was NO complaining, no shouting,
and certainly no losing it.

Why?? Because NO ONE ELSE THERE knew
the ruling (except for me). F2 just
snatched the ball from the fence, threw
to F1, and the game went on.

Maybe the defensive coach knew the rule,
but I doubt it. Soonerfan, I hope you
are exaggerating about the cursing at
the ump. But, when you get an idiot like
that at one of YOUR games, remember your
words here.

And, Bluezebra, pregame ground rules
meeting is primarily to go over unique
characteristics about the field (like
to the left of the light pole is a HR,
to the right is a double; play the oak
tree like a wall). There is no need
(or time) to discuss general book rules.
It is a given that the game is being
ruled by OBR, or FED or whatever code.

And, by the way, runners might NOT advance
one base when the ball gets stuck in
backstop. It depends what happened before that.
Safer to tell them it'll be "book rule" when
the ball is lodged or goes into DBT.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 22, 2002, 02:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marty Rogers
Guys:
There was NO complaining, no shouting,
and certainly no losing it.

Why?? Because NO ONE ELSE THERE knew
the ruling (except for me). F2 just
snatched the ball from the fence, threw
to F1, and the game went on.

Maybe the defensive coach knew the rule,
but I doubt it. Soonerfan, I hope you
are exaggerating about the cursing at
the ump. But, when you get an idiot like
that at one of YOUR games, remember your
words here.

And, Bluezebra, pregame ground rules
meeting is primarily to go over unique
characteristics about the field (like
to the left of the light pole is a HR,
to the right is a double; play the oak
tree like a wall). There is no need
(or time) to discuss general book rules.
It is a given that the game is being
ruled by OBR, or FED or whatever code.

And, by the way, runners might NOT advance
one base when the ball gets stuck in
backstop. It depends what happened before that.
Safer to tell them it'll be "book rule" when
the ball is lodged or goes into DBT.


I agree about the plate meeting being a place for "unique" ground rules and not a rules meeting. The part about a HS or college coach coming unwound is not much of a stretch. You all are right, a bit of a stretch on the HS coaches actions. Although I know a lot of them and know of some cases of their "displays" and they get away with it sine baseball is so important to some AD's. I know college coaches will split in two, you may cost them a game with "we did not cover it at the plate meeting." A lot of coaches in small colleges teach classes as well, however not all of them do. When they coach, they are doing their JOB! How well they do it may depend on how much they get paid, or if they keep the job. If a coach loses a game, an important one at that, and he feel that his job security is in jeopardy you can bet that he will not go alone. Coaches hold grudges, that's why we call them rats, and they can turn on you quickly. I am not saying I will call a game different because I do not want to piss anyone off, I could care less what people say about me. I love baseball and I love to umpire, but while you are on the field your only friends are dressed just like you.
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