Sending a "message"

[TheSlav]

Originally Posted by mbyron

A central problem with the FYC for many umpires is that it is too easily misinterpreted:

1. The umpire is lousy with balls & strikes anyway, and it's written off as just another mistake. Participants interpret a FYC as a bad call by a lousy umpire.
2. The umpire uses the FYC as a crutch instead of employing good game management techniques. Participants interpret a FYC as a bad call by a lousy umpire with a temper.

To send the right message and use a FYC effectively, then, you must be a really good ball/strike umpire who doesn't miss pitches. And, you must be known to be such. A missed call then demands explanation, and then the explanation might be "FYC."

Also, you must be great at game management, and have a player go over the line anyway. Once everyone on the field sees such a player and is thinking "what an azz," a FYC from the umpire can actually be welcome.

For my part, I'm not there yet. So I don't use the FYC at any level.

The FYC probably retains some small place in amateur baseball, but the place is really small. Certainly I would not use it in HS ball (though I've been accused of it): for one thing, I'd be worried about being misinterpreted along the lines of the above. But also, I choose not to get into pissing contests with teenage boys.

I would agree with your third scenario where the occasional FYC is a "part" of good game management. Remember, questioning ball and strikes is against the rules and could be considered bad sportsmanship subjecting the questioner to immediate ejection.

If you take the position of being morally opposed to the FYC, and I clearly don't believe it quite reaches that moral high ground (it is a game after all), then you must be tossing folks at the first sign of displeasure (and risk being labeled a red-***) or accepting the critique like a doormat (and being labeled a doormat). You're going to open yourself up to criticism either way, it goes with the territory.

The FYC simply offers an additional tool-in-the-tool box, which only the baseball knowledge impaired players and coaches do not understand. It's a bridge between allowing the behavior to continue and ejecting at the first sign of such behavior. I don't particularly care for either extreme, but that's just me.

If imposing an occasional "one-pitch penalty for bad behavior" is wrong, I don't want to be right.
If being right means being without you (FYC call), I'd rather be wrong than right.
(My apologies to Luther Ingram, Homer Banks, Carl Hampton, Raymond Jackson and Stax Records or any of its affiliates)



Please stop making it a morality play, it's a judgment call regarding how you personally handle your game management situations, that's all. No right or wrong answer in my opinion.

I guess like any game management tool, if you're using it too much, then the problem may not be with them, it's you. Like T's in basketball or ejections, maybe one or two a season. They shouldn't be happening game after game.

When they do happen, I still tend to think of it as a "trying to keep you in the game, despite your borderline bad sportsmanship" call but FYC is easier to say/understand then TtKYitGDYBBS, see it just doesn't work. FYC while vivid, accurate and descriptive is a slightly pejorative term.



I don't see where the problem of understanding the call is, coaches that I've talked with after using the tool and explaining that, in effect that's the kids warning, have never had a problem with it, in fact most say either thanks or they knew it was coming. I never had a problem with it when I coached HS kids.

It's really not a debate out there, it's a baseball game. Players play, coaches coach, umpires umpire.

[Ump153]

That's one way to be seen as a moral person; redfine morality.

It brings to mind a great saying from the 90's. "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is."

Is telling everyone a strike pitch is a ball, when in fact you know it to be a strike, telling the truth? If you believe it is, read no further. You wont understand, anyway.

I would, obviously, disagree with about everything in your post. I have never had to resort to a FYC. It has not caused any problems. Ejections? About 3 a year out of 90 or so games. I am capable of communicating my displeasure and my expectations without lying and without tossing everyone who pisses me off and without becoming a doormat. I'm sorry if you haven't developed that ability.

Your "if so, I don't want to be right" logic sounds romantic, but my credibility and reputation are more important to me. If lying works for you and comes easy to you, by all means, use it. I believe in more direct and easily understood communtication.

[kylejt]

It's not morality, it's ethics. Everyone has their bar set at a different level in order for them to sleep at night.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Ump153

That's one way to be seen as a moral person; redfine morality.

It brings to mind a great saying from the 90's. "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is."

The President-elect thanks you for your support!

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

The President-elect thanks you for your support!

I hope you noticed the sarcasm dripping off the page. I was, of course, referring to the man who referred to himself as the "first black president", William Jefferson Clinton.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yeah, I recognized the quote. So now we have the second! Whoopie.

[TheSlav]

Originally Posted by Ump153

That's one way to be seen as a moral person; redfine morality.

It brings to mind a great saying from the 90's. "That depends on what the meaning of "is" is."

Is telling everyone a strike pitch is a ball, when in fact you know it to be a strike, telling the truth? If you believe it is, read no further. You wont understand, anyway.

I would, obviously, disagree with about everything in your post. I have never had to resort to a FYC. It has not caused any problems. Ejections? About 3 a year out of 90 or so games. I am capable of communicating my displeasure and my expectations without lying and without tossing everyone who pisses me off and without becoming a doormat. I'm sorry if you haven't developed that ability.

Your "if so, I don't want to be right" logic sounds romantic, but my credibility and reputation are more important to me. If lying works for you and comes easy to you, by all means, use it. I believe in more direct and easily understood communtication.

Morality does not have the same hard and fast definition as you might believe.

FROM THE STANFORD ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PHILOSOPHY:
The term “morality” can be used either

1. descriptively to refer to a code of conduct put forward by a society or,
1. some other group, such as a religion, or
2. accepted by an individual for her own behavior or
2. normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

Neither does the rule book. All I am saying is calling people liars and cheaters just because they don't subscribe to the same theory as you do is not the best way to get your point across. Neither is questioning their morality.
I would ask that in the future you leave your questioning of my morality or honesty at the door. You don't know me that well, sir.

I would think everybody on this board cares about their credibility and reputation, don't you?

Anyway, I think the FYC, or whatever you want to refer to it as, is easily understood, even at the HS level. Note I added you communicate to the player or the coach what happened which includes that the players behavior is unacceptable and can result in ejection. I just think most prefer the option to modify their behavior on their own before I act. I am just relaying my experience with the matter.

Sorry you thought the term doormat referred to you specifically or to anyone who shares your point of view. I don't have a huge problem with either approach, I think you have to do something in those situation to penalize the behavior or you leave a bigger problem for the next guy.

The number of ejections you cited is about the same number of legit FYC calls in lieu of possible ejections I would expect, it's not an every game event. I have about the same # of ejections (usually coaches).

Coaches and fans probably "see" more FYC's and its cousin the perceived "make-up call" then actually occur. But you're going to battle that perception regardless of what you do.

To each his own. The only wrong answer IMO is to ignore the behavior entirely.

Peace my brothers.