Not even

[justanotherblue]

An hour and it's locked... that's faster than ringing up the batter on strike one

[SanDiegoSteve]

Now, now...let's not pile on

[Tim C]

I apologize to all of you that took time to react to the OP and then lost that material by heavy handed moderation.

We now know that we really can't criticize anyone "they" know.

As PapaC says: "Lah me."

Regards and I apologize one final time.

Regards,

[Kevin Finnerty]

My posts were deleted for absolutely no reason before Tim C's thread was locked. No reason, other than my agreeing with Tim and telling the truth. There are Cardinal Rules about running a message board and they don't seem to know them here. Maybe you guys should change the way you operate?? Anyone else disgusted with the arbitrary censorship??

I sent this message to this moderator:

Why did you delete my posts before you locked that thread? And why did you lock the thread?

That is irresponsible and biased and very cowardly. The truth is a part of life that you obviously have a tough time with handling. And you're supposed to be an official.

What's going on? What rule did I violate? You must be joking ...

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I apologize to all of you that took time to react to the OP and then lost that material by heavy handed moderation.

We now know that we really can't criticize anyone "they" know.

As PapaC says: "Lah me."

Regards and I apologize one final time.

Regards,

Hey, be yourself and no need to apologize! You are an important and respectable voice in umpiring and I/we have learned a lot from you. I read your posts for a long time before I started posting, and you're a little brash, but you can back it up without much effort at all.

Stay at it!

[justanotherblue]

It's easy to tell when one reads through the posts, the level of play one works, and or experience, overall knowledge as well as ones ability to comprehend the intent of the written word. From the outside looking in, I find myself siding with SDS, Tim, Ozzy and Bobby more than not. I'm slow to jump on a fellow umpire as we all make mistakes. Unfortunately when the mistakes are there for all to see and against all mechanics that are taught, it's tough not to. The plays missed were pure mechanic failures...moving, not set...timing issues, (even the locked one) angle/distance, those things we're taught while growing up and beat into us as young umpires, struggling to learn the two man system. In six man mechanics they shouldn't happen, they do. Obviously, this year there were plenty throughout the playoffs. Terrible calls are terrible calls, and as an officiating forum there will be discussion on them.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Precisely!

And it seldom leaves those confines. Simple criticisms of umpiring just disappear from here. No rules or standards broken, just deleted.

[bob jenkins]

One moderators take on this:

1) I agree that I would not have deleted many of the posts in the closed thread that Tim C started. That said, I know I didn't see them all.

2) Just like when we're on the field, comments about officiating (the calls) are generally acceptable; comments about the officials (personal) are not.

3) As one example, Kevin's "letter to the moderator" posted in this thread contains a personal attack (something like, "The truth about this is something you can't handle and you're supposed to be an official."). That's something that would normally be deleted. The questions he asks ("Why were my posts deleted?") are valid (I've been asked that before, and responded with my reasoning to the requestor.)

4) If I'm "in a good mood" I'll edit the post; if not, I'll just delete it all. The latter happens more often than the former.

5) My opinion of SDS' posts (since that's what seemed to precipitate this latest discussion) on Ed H (as I recall them -- but my memory isn't what they used to be): The were pure "fan-boyish" (I recall the trite "he cost us the game" BS) and didn't help anyone become a better official, especially on a baseball forum (I'm led to believe that there were posts on the football forum, but I didn't read any of those). I don't recall them being too personal, though.

6) In some discussions the moderators had about the thread, I discovered that the other moderator is "going through a rough patch." He apologized (both publically and privately) and even though it doesn't get the posts back, I'm inclined to cut him a break.

[Kevin Finnerty]

That was something that I wrote in a message (which was very true) and then later decided to make public, because it is related to a public issue. I said the truth--the plain truth--in my posts and they were summarily deleted for no reason and only then was the thread locked.

Come on. Locking it is one thing, but hand picking a few posts and deleting them before you lock it is really a violation of how these things are supposed to operate. I'm no youngster.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

One moderators take on this:
6) In some discussions the moderators had about the thread, I discovered that the other moderator is "going through a rough patch." He apologized (both publically and privately) and even though it doesn't get the posts back, I'm inclined to cut him a break.

I am a sympathetic person, but this is a poor excuse for deleting my posts and others' posts this morning. You need to take more control, perhaps.

[mick]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I am a sympathetic person, but this is a poor excuse for deleting my posts and others' posts this morning. You need to take more control, perhaps.

Kevin,
Nobody disagrees with you.
The apology was made.
The posts are gone.
Please allow this subject to rest in peace.
Thanks.
mick

[PeteBooth]

Hi Tee:

IMO, I think the umpire Forums are in a way afraid that their site will turn into Gary McGriff's 2.

As you are well aware, McGriff's was one if not thee best umpire discussion Forum around. Many a knowledgeable umpire posted there religiously. The likes of Papa C, Bob Pariseau, Jim Porter, George Lucy (GEE), Warren Wilson Dave Hensley, just to name a few.

You could say anything you wanted at that site.

McGriff's then tuned into the Jerry Springer umpire discussion Forum and I think (not certain) the site is not up anymore.

Therefore, I agree with your position about the moderators knowing certain individuals and taking exception when someone says something negative about them. I also think what happened over at McGriff's has had an impact on what posts get deleted as well.

Pete Booth

[PS2Man]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Hi Tee:

IMO, I think the umpire Forums are in a way afraid that their site will turn into Gary McGriff's 2.

That may be a valid concern, but I am not seeing a lot of consistency on this site lately. This conversation was not much different than a conversation on the football board several weeks ago and that was not deleted. There were a couple of threads on the basketball side that were closed and in one of them all that took place were a disagreement over a philosophy. I read this board and people get personal and nothing is done. It seems like there is not set standard of what is wrong and what is allowed. I do not post here very often but I read this place from time to time. It also seems like we are losing a lot of people that used to frequent the board because of many of these issues. At some point this place is not going to be worth the trouble. Garth left several months ago and a lot of this was based on things the moderators could have solved. Maybe I should stay away as well. In officiating we are looking for some level of consistency and right now we are not getting it from the people that run the board.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

5) My opinion of SDS' posts (since that's what seemed to precipitate this latest discussion) on Ed H (as I recall them -- but my memory isn't what they used to be): The were pure "fan-boyish" (I recall the trite "he cost us the game" BS) and didn't help anyone become a better official, especially on a baseball forum (I'm led to believe that there were posts on the football forum, but I didn't read any of those). I don't recall them being too personal, though.

I said that he cost the Chargers the game, not "us." I don't play for the Chargers. Also, this was on the football board (not the baseball board), and the posts followed many others who felt that the call was wrong. I guess because I do follow the Chargers, and I'm from San Diego, and another Charger fan was getting shellacked at the same time, that my comments came off as "fanboyish." Well, on Sunday's, my officials hat comes off (seeing as though I am retired), and my Lightning Bolts get strapped on. My comments were made in the heat of the moment, while still seething from the events of the game.

I had all but forgotten the whole thing, when some lame poster decided it was a good idea to remind me about my little tirade weeks later on the baseball board. He felt it necessary to rehash the whole thing, and I merely stood up for my post and defended my actions. The subject of Ed H. would never have made it to the baseball side of the forum except for this individual's insistence on dragging out the already dead horse and beating on it some more.

It is true that his call did cost them the game, as without the call the
Chargers would have simply ran out the clock, but I never insulted Ed H. on a personal level. I did not impune his integrity, malign him or his family, call him any names, talk about his mama, etc. I did not accuse him of intentionally blowing the call. I merely expressed myself about the call being quite horrible, which is undeniable.

Nothing at all like the beating I take quite often from certain individuals on this forum.

[mick]

Originally Posted by PS2Man

That may be a valid concern, but I am not seeing a lot of consistency on this site lately. This conversation was not much different than a conversation on the football board several weeks ago and that was not deleted.

PS2MAN,
Each forum has a different personality.
Thus, each will be moderated differently.

Apparently, face guarding is also called differently.