Doubleheader situation

[canadaump6]

In game 1 of a doubleheader, base umpire ejects a player for a personal remark. The rest of the game is completed without any other problems. The teams need to start the second game of the doubleheader asap because the lights are on a timer.

How much time is reasonable to give the umpires between games? Is it acceptable that they spend some of that time phoning the league president asking if the ejected player is suspended for the second game of the doubleheader, or should whatever suspension happens take place in a game after the doubleheader when the umpire has filled out an ejection report?

I'm asking this because as a player I had a doubleheader where a player on my team was ejected, and the umpires took over 20 minutes in between games, which I suspect was because they were phoning the guy in charge of the league to ask if the ejected player gets a suspension. They were leaving phone messages and calling different numbers to get in contact with him, so it took longer than just a quick phone call. Given the situation of needing to get the second game in as soon as possible, was it reasonable that they would take extra time phoning the convenor rather than filling out an ejection report after the doubleheader and letting the convenor decide further consequences?

[bobbybanaduck]

anything less than 20 minutes is unacceptable. i don't care if the lights are on a timer. start the games earlier if you want to get them both in. i get paid for 2 either way, and i need time between games to do stuff that needs to be done...i.e. relieve myself, change uniforms and equipment, have a small snack, etc.

[DG]

I guess he expects us to go into a nearby phone booth and appear ready to go in a flash. It may take 5 minutes to get to the parking spot, longer at some sites. The amount of time needed between games is a function of the site, and the temperature, nothing else.

[cbfoulds]

Re: "lights on timers" - what bobby said ...
Re: suspended or not -
ejected rats are often told they are "done for the day" ... this is not just a figure of speach.
Anybody gets launched in Game 1 of any DH I'm doing is not appearing in the next round. As a philosophical and policy matter, I don't concern myself with if an EJ carries/results in a suspension or [other] additional penalty - that's for the League to decide; but having been relieved of [or having relieved myself of] a boil on my backside in game 1, there is no way I am going to sit still for inviting it back to infest the 2d half of my day/evening.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

The teams need to start the second game of the doubleheader asap because the lights are on a timer.

That's not the umpire's problem. Poor scheduling is to blame for the situation. Maybe they should have planned the schedule a little better.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

How much time is reasonable to give the umpires between games?

Whatever the PU of the first game says is reasonable, not to exceed 30 minutes, but in no case less than 20 (by rule). It is the umpire-in-chief who is the timekeeper controlling the interval between games. Again, it's not the manager's decision as to the start time, so his urgency is not an issue.

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Is it acceptable that they spend some of that time phoning the league president asking if the ejected player is suspended for the second game of the doubleheader, or should whatever suspension happens take place in a game after the doubleheader when the umpire has filled out an ejection report?

What the umpires do on their rest period is their business, but I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time phoning league presidents.

[tballump]

Seems like 20 (by rule) or 30 minutes is about right as was previously stated. Many times the teams need 5-10 themselves and then the new pitcher needs plenty of time (unrushed) to warmup on the sidelines before the start of the next game.

The league (at the pre-season league meeting) should have already touched on the rule about ejections in the first game of a doubleheader, which would either make the player sit out both games or let him play in the second, including whether or not the umpires should call after the first game.

I would assume for any league, if the player was ejected for verbally threating an umpire or bumping an umpire which would carry a more severe penalty, then the person who runs the league should be called and asked for an immediate decision after hearing a verbal report as to whether the player gets to play the second game, or is suspended immediately, with the suspension to start with the second game of the doubleheader. Once again, this should all be discussed at a pre-season league meeting.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

In game 1 of a doubleheader, base umpire ejects a player for a personal remark. The rest of the game is completed without any other problems. The teams need to start the second game of the doubleheader asap because the lights are on a timer.

How much time is reasonable to give the umpires between games? Is it acceptable that they spend some of that time phoning the league president asking if the ejected player is suspended for the second game of the doubleheader, or should whatever suspension happens take place in a game after the doubleheader when the umpire has filled out an ejection report?

I'm asking this because as a player I had a doubleheader where a player on my team was ejected, and the umpires took over 20 minutes in between games, which I suspect was because they were phoning the guy in charge of the league to ask if the ejected player gets a suspension. They were leaving phone messages and calling different numbers to get in contact with him, so it took longer than just a quick phone call. Given the situation of needing to get the second game in as soon as possible, was it reasonable that they would take extra time phoning the convenor rather than filling out an ejection report after the doubleheader and letting the convenor decide further consequences?

Do you not work double headers with a partner yourself?

If you do, how much time do you take between games to get ready?


Tim.

[JJ]

In my neck of the woods it's 30 minutes between games. That's NCAA, Legion, and Independent games. There are times we'll tell THEM we'll try to be out in 25, but 30 is the rule of thumb.

As to the "lights being on a timer"...I have NO control over that. That's just poor planning, and I certainly hope they don't try to blame ME for not getting in a game because the lights get shut off! I could suggest we start everyone with a 1-1 count

And dealing with that ejected player - you need to find out BEFORE you go umpire in any league/game what their policy is for players sitting out game 2. FED ball calls for him to sit. PRO rules do not. I don't know about LL, or Cal Ripkin, or Dixie - you get the the idea. The time to deal with that crap is to know going in what your options are.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by JJ

In my neck of the woods it's 30 minutes between games. That's NCAA, Legion, and Independent games. There are times we'll tell THEM we'll try to be out in 25, but 30 is the rule of thumb.

As to the "lights being on a timer"...I have NO control over that. That's just poor planning, and I certainly hope they don't try to blame ME for not getting in a game because the lights get shut off! I could suggest we start everyone with a 1-1 count

And dealing with that ejected player - you need to find out BEFORE you go umpire in any league/game what their policy is for players sitting out game 2. FED ball calls for him to sit. PRO rules do not. I don't know about LL, or Cal Ripkin, or Dixie - you get the the idea. The time to deal with that crap is to know going in what your options are.

I can't find anything in the FED rules that says an ejection is for the day.


FYI in LL you are automatically suspended from the next physically played game.

[Ump29]

In my area it laid out what type of offense causes an automatic second game suspension or more. Argue balls and strikes etc. gets you only the game your are ejected from, something more serious gets an automatic game beyond the "ejected" game.
As to time between games, 20 to 30 minutes seems fair and is usual locally.

[JJ]

[QUOTE=Rich Ives;538252]I can't find anything in the FED rules that says an ejection is for the day.
QUOTE]

My bad - in Illinois an Unsportsmanlike ejection is an automatic one game suspension in FED.

JJ

[UmpJM]

canadaump6,

I would concur with others who suggest that 20-30 minutes between games is pretty standard and reasonable. What the umpires do between games is their business.

As to the question of whether a player ejected in the first game of a DH is eligible to play in the 2nd game, I would agree with SD Steve that that question is in no way the umpires' concern and I would further suggest that it is not within the scope of the umpires' authority to rule one way or the other on the question.

That is a league matter. The umpires do have a role in determining eligibility during a game, but not prior to the start of the game. If a team uses an ineligible player in a game, most leagues have a specified penalty (most commonly, automatic forfeit of the game in question, in my experience), and it is the league's business to enforce the penalty.

In response to cbfoulds' point, while I can empathize with his point of view, if I eject a player in the 1st game of a DH and he is in the lineup of the 2nd game of the DH, he "starts over" from my perspective. If the player in question "behaves", I've got no problem. If he deserves it, I'll eject him again.

If I happen to know that the league in question has a mandatory & immediate one subsequent game suspension (as the IHSA does, for example), I would ask the manager in question if he was aware of that and still planned to use the player. If he did, I wouldn't try to stop him, but I would likely file a report with the league noting that he had done so. It is not the umpires' responsibility to enforce league disciplinary regulations outside the context of the game.

JM

[btdt]

20/30 in between games
in the past i tried a few times to acomodate coaches that wanted get started right away
guess what
they were never ready
now if a coach is in a hurry i tell will be back asap
20/30 minutes later we show
50/50 if they are ready

ejected player
I don't care what they do, not my problem
if they play game 2 .... I would hope they behave because they won't be happy after getting ejected twice in one day

[canadaump6]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Do you not work double headers with a partner yourself?

If you do, how much time do you take between games to get ready?


Tim.

Depends on the league and whether it is a tournament. For some tournaments we have up to an hour in between games. I've had other doubleheaders where if we take more than 15 minutes somebody is nagging us.

My problem is that the umpires in the doubleheader described used their time phoning people to see if the ejected player sits out the second game. Suspensions are not their call, but like a lot of people have said it helps knowing what the policy is going into the doubleheader.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by canadaump6

Depends on the league and whether it is a tournament. For some tournaments we have up to an hour in between games. I've had other doubleheaders where if we take more than 15 minutes somebody is nagging us.

My problem is that the umpires in the doubleheader described used their time phoning people to see if the ejected player sits out the second game. Suspensions are not their call, but like a lot of people have said it helps knowing what the policy is going into the doubleheader.

You shouldn't care what they do between games. It's their time. If I was told we needed to start as quick as possible, I would let them know "we'll be out when we're changed and ready." I couldn't possibly care how much of Game 2 is played -- we're getting paid and the lights are on a timer.